(Solved!) AK Midi Ext 'bug'. Downgrade to 1.23C to fix

Elektron Gear
#1

I had a similar thread going but I still can’t seem to find the best way to get a desired behaviour from my setup. I suspect a solution is somewhere in my midi channels setup, and in particular the auto channel on each machine. I have only done very basic midi setup before, so hopefully someone here with more experience than I have can shed some light on this.

I think what I’m looking to do is pretty normal. In addition to a Trinity setup, control a couple of synth modules (Parva, Vocoder) using the Analog Keys as a midi keyboard and also sequence those modules from the Octatrack. Sequencing should be done with trig presses on the Octatrack and key presses on the Analog Keys. (Minus the Parva that’s still in the mail, I have this part all working fine already)

The Analog Keys should only send its notes when MIDI Ext is on. (This part is NOT working fine)

The module that the AK controls should correspond to whichever Octatrack MIDI track is active. (Haven’t got this far yet with the Parva still in the mail.)

Here’s a sketch:

Screen Shot 2017-03-21 at 3.29.24 PM.png1791×1005 224 KB

I’m sure I’m not the only one wanting to sequence their synths in this way! Can anyone enlighten me with a proper midi channel setup for this rig?

(By the way, I haven’t noted any latency yet and would like to avoid buying a midi router unless absolutely necessary)

*edit: Rytm THRU to AK in.

MIDI ext mode and MIDI Config
#2

Spend $60 on a midi-thru box and save yourself a lot of headaches.

Nothing out the OT-midi-thru contains OT-sequencer information. OT sequencer info will only be available via OT-midi-out.

First things first. Setup only the moog, OT and aKeys. Everything else you can worry about after you get those 3 doing what you want.

AKeys midi-out to OT midi-in (so you can play instruments hooked up to the OT via the AKeys)
OT midi-out to moog midi-in (so the OT and sequence and AKeys can control the moog. Also this is where I would chain a midi-thru box from - the OT midi-out)
Moog midi-thru back to the AKeys. (Because I run my OT as my master sequencer and need the AKeys to start when I hit play on the OT)

There are most certainly settings on each machine (midi channels and such) that need adjustment before everything will work, but this should get you started with the wiring.

You’re trying to run a moderately advanced midi setup, it’s going to take a while to get it sorted out. Good luck, and have fun.

EDIT, global, midi-config, midi-port config, keyboard dst needs to be set to internal and you should fix your AK playing notes all the time issue.

1 Like
#3

Thing is, the AK notes all the time issue is basically the ONLY problem i’m getting. Well, also restricting AK’s notes to when MIDI Ext is on. The other stuff is working fine. Do I really start from scratch?

#4

global, midi-config, midi-port config, keyboard dst needs to be set to internal and you should fix your AK playing notes all the time issue.

This should restrict external midi notes only when the ext button is pressed.

1 Like
#5

Ok will give it a try right now! Thanks!

2 Likes
#6

Nope, I’ve tried that and a bunch of other stuff with the channels and auto channel. The only way it works is with MIDI Ext off and keyboard dest set to int/ext or just ext. That’s what leads me to thinking it’s a problem with channel setup…thoughts?

#7

Actually I can get it work with MIDI Ext on as well, with MIDI Ext set to auto channel.

#8

Maybe something in this thread can help?

2 Likes
#9

If you need a midi thru speak to the beautiful (and rather well endowed) @guga who builds really nice kit.

1 Like
#10

What a great thread and contribution from Peter Hanes, but it doesn’t seem to cover these issues. I went ahead and turned a bunch of midi channels off though. Maybe that will help stave off latency…? Also messed with the CC Direct Connect setting he mentions but I don’t think therein lies the answer…

Anyway still as before, about 93.33% of the way there with the two critical issues remaining…

I tell ya, it’ll be worth it to get this solved. The speed and ease of writing and sequencing, especially chord sequencing, is just phenomenal with this approach. Identical to plugging in lines on the AK.

Just some on/off and channel select control is all that’s needed…

MIDI lords! I beseech you!

#11

6.66% yet to go… the devil is in the details. :imp:

#12

With the setup as drawn, you will not be able to sequence the SP, Parva, or vocoder from the OT.

I would suggest a slight re-think:

Physical connections:
AK MIDI Out to OT MIDI In
OT MIDI Out to AR MIDI In
AR MIDI Thru to AK MIDI In
AK MIDI Thru to SP MIDI In
SP MIDI Thru to Parva MIDI In
Parva MIDI Out (set up as Thru port) to Vocoder MIDI In

That way you would not need any additional MIDI Thru box. If this configuration looks useful to you, we can think about the channels setup.

Regarding the problem with the AK sending notes even when you’re not using MIDI Ext, I believe that you should set KEYBOARD DEST to “INT” in the AK’s GLOBAL > MIDI CONFIG > MIDI PORT CONFIG menu, as pointed out above.

Optimum results will come from setting the AK’s EXT MIDI CH to the same number as the AUTO CHANNEL on the OT. Then you can target any device downstream by setting the MIDI channels for the OT’s MIDI sequencer tracks, and then selecting the MIDI sequencer track that you want to target.

1 Like
#13

Hi Peter, thank you for chiming in! …Minus the Parva, the physical connections you listed are exactly what I have right now. I must have messed up the sketch… my bad. But yes, it does definitely work! …except for the MIDI ext issue…

I tried the Keyboard Dest to int option and it didn’t work for me. Just tried again again right now and no luck.

I have set AK’s MIDI Ext to the same channel as auto channel, as well as to auto itself. Both settings send fine when MIDI ext is off, but neither sends while MIDI Ext is on. (MIDI signal pixel on the OT screen stops as well.)

I think I’m less worried about the downstream device targeting behaviour, partially because I don’t have the Parva in hand for testing and partly because I had in mind what you describe. Glad to hear confirmation that that part should be easy enough once I get there.

So it’s just this AK-notes-all-the-time vs only when MIDI Ext is on thing that is still a problem. What are we missing?

#14

I have this feeling auto channel is a critical factor… Anything to do with Auto channel being the same on multiple devices? Right now I use 16 for auto channel on the trinity and 15 for program change. I’ve turned off the track and fx channels as per your advice in the thread referenced above.

#15

*edit: Oops, not quite the same physical connections. I’m:
AK out SP in
SP thru OT in
OT out AR in
AR thru AK in
AK thru Vocoder in

And it works… minus the midi ext thing…

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think regarding the thru chain there are a few friendly ways to route it. As long as OT gets into AK and AK gets into OT.

…gonna test your recommended connections right now though, just to be sure.

…yep works the same, and same problem.

#16

Reading your diagram,

which is a little confusing, because the connections go left/right in long lines (I would recommend to draw not the layout of the boxes in front of you, but rather showing the connections more clearly),

I see that there is

the Trintiy of AK --> OT --> AR --> AK,

which only has one connection to the outside, the OT-through, which goes

daisy-chain to SlimPhatty --> Parva --> Vocoder

Now the problem … there is no OT-out to the daisy-chain and such the OT-sequencer is not connected. The OT-through does not transmit the OT-sequencer midi.

Now you have two options.

  1. Use a midi-through box at the OT-out and split the midi to be send from the OT-out to the AR AND the SlimPhatty, and you are done :wink:
  2. reorganise your setup such, that you use the OT as a midi re-routing unit.

Why and how is 2) supposed to work?

The OT sports with each midi-track the capability to re-route incoming midi to a dedicated midi-channel. Let’s assume the OT-input gets midi from the AK on channel X, but the track inside the OT says, re-route this to channel Y. Check the manual for this, it’s quite straight forward and easy to implement.

Your setup could change to have the OT as a center-piece. There would be

a) AK-out --> OT-in
b) OT-out --> “daisy-chaining”: unit1-in, and then unit1-through --> unit2-in and so on … until the AK would be the last in the chain.

I use this midi-toplogy myself and the setup works reliable:

  • AK is the master keyboard
  • re-routing with the OT midi-tracks allows to address and play up to 8 different instruments or channels
  • the OT is also sequencer for the up to 8 devices.

Okay, at the end you have to get all those channels right, but also here the rule is simple, just check that each device listens to one dedicated channel and there is no unwanted doubling, or a forgotten channel. There will be some menu-diving, but once you have it right, it’s done :wink:

Edit: seems that @PeterHanes had made a quite similar suggestion before … :wink:

#17

The only disadvantage of this configuration is that you lose the opportunity to sequence the SP from the OT. But that’s simply a matter of your preference.

The troubling thing is why your AK’s MIDI Ext mode appears to not be working correctly.

Are you sure that when you set EXT MIDI CH in the External Keyboard mode menu to a number that is the same number as you have set for the OT’s Auto Channel, stay in External Keyboard mode, and play the AK’s keyboard, that no MIDI notes are sent to OT?

If no notes are sent to OT then you should contact Elektron support for better advice than I can give.

#18

Yeah I’m starting to feel like the physical connections routing is not the issue. I’ve gone through a few configurations with each of them working fine in terms of sending program change, AK notes, and midi sequence data. (SP is sequenced by CV). It’s been interesting learning how many ways it can actually go, including the way you describe now!

It’s this channels stuff where I think I’m stuck…

1 Like
#19

Maybe I do need to contact support for this one. The situation with MIDI Ext is exactly as you describe. :confused: (Still under the connections setup you recommended earlier.)

It’s very strange because I’ve used MIDI ext in the past to control soft synths on my Mac…

1 Like
#20

Thanks for everyone’s time on this. I’ll be sure to pass on the solution once it materializes!

1 Like