Side chain effect. Credit - Ezbot tutorial

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#1

Note: searched and did not find the original post for this.

Ive been playing with this lately. Generally I hate side chain compression, especially the 4/4 pumping effect.

However, if we take the basic method as shown by @mpiecora

https://youtu.be/7MrusUl-WHE?si=d3FELCzy_9T6gbFR

We can extrapolate from there, and use the LFO as an envelope to duck a filter. Do this with a fast speed and you’ll get a very useful mix tool, clear the initial portion of the bass out of the way so that the front end of the bass drum is not fighting for space.

Example. In my project I have a sample on my OT playing the bassline. I enter trigless trigs on steps where the bass drum hits. Then I enter LFO page, now I dont want a 4/4 pumping effect, I just want to clear some space so the initial transient and weight of the bass drum isnt fighting against bass. This means a short, tight envelope.

My settings, but tweak to taste and individual use case:

LFO destination Filt width
Inverted exp curve.
Mult 64
Trig ONE
Speed, to taste, for the tempo of the current track, its around midway.
Depth max.

Trigless trigs will fire the LFO on the required steps.

Im not actually using the filter for shaping, just using it with the LFO/envelope as a mix tool.

You can also do this with amp vol, or the compressor. But @mpiecora is right, using filter width as the destination sounds better.

Just place a trigless trig where ever you want the envelope to fire.

Im doing this very subtley, just enough to give the kick transient a bit more power. You could go full pump if want, the envelope is very flexible.

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Trigger LFOs with trigless trigs, but not sample trigs
#2

Ducking with the filter sounds incredibly smooth. I’ve been using the filter for ducking pretty much since I got my OT (ok, after the “wtf moments” and OT started to behave), but you know what I mean.

I’m usually setting mult x8 and then go slow-ish on the speed, but depends.

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#3

My question now is, why is a trigless trig retrigering the amp envelope!? It bloody well shouldnt.

If amp settings set to RTRIG, the manual states amp env will retart when a sample is trigged.

Trigless trigs, according to the manual , do not trig machines, but trig LFOs and FX envelopes.

@sezare56, any thoughts?

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#4

There’s some stuff that’s still not 100% right. Lfo in Sync One mode is exactly the same as sync trig for example. Sync trig should not reset at step 1 with every loop, but it does.
I use filter ducking only on thru machines , attack 0, hold and release 127 triggered by sample trigs so envelope retriggering doesn’t matter.
I don’t quite remember what the issue was when you have one shot samples or loops, but could very well have been the amp env that kept me from using it.
For samples/loops I use the lfo designer with four ramp waves and sync trig mode (sounds a bit crude, usually only works well on high freq content), or I record with a slight ducking and have that baked into the sample.

I’ve talked to Elektron about the retriggering behaviour and the lfo behaviour before, but that was some years ago. They acknowledged the issue with lfo sync trig, but didn’t say much.

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#5

Sorry @Microtribe I am on an small island, without Octatrack.
Will read again, but it seems like I’d need to have it to check. :wink:

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#6

Yeah right. Ive not really ever got so fiddly and detailed until now.

If using a thru machine, or long sample (eg four bar loop) the method above works fine.

However, if using sliced samples or one shots, you get amp env retriggering… even though the manual states you shouldnt.

Current workaround =
Just p lock the amp env to suit on the supposed trigless trigs :roll_eyes:

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#7

Octatrack is great if you only use the stuff that works really well and ignore the rest, you know…
Nah, jokes aside, ducking can really be fiddly. Sometimes I use slide trigs or p-lock the volume (which also only works on certain material), because there’s some other stuff that interferes.
I’ve gotten so used to it by now, I really have to test the amp retriggering behaviour tomorrow, but I’m fairly certain you’re right and this is what according to the manual should work differently.

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#8

99% of the time, i never use side chaining.
This one track though… yeah, it just sounds better with it. The most subtle amount, but its enough to make a difference.

#9

We need an Octatrack II!

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#10

Blink twice if you have one in your possesion but are under an NDA!

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#11

I don’t know a damn thing except they told me directly that they know we want one. So there’s hope

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#12

I don’t use the lfo AT all, there is the filter envelope amount, set it to affect base, and then trig a neighbor track.

#13

Ducking with base?

Ducking with the filter envelope can sound nice, but the lfo gives you this nice log (I mean exponential) shape.
Here’s a one bar note, first without ducking, then different lfo speeds and at the end without ducking again.
Ignore the noise, that’s the Analog Rytm, was too lazy to set up a different kit and match levels. It’s not audible in a full mix anyway.

#14

Hurhur…

To clarify. The amp and filt env can only do linear or logarithmic curves. LFO does exponential, which is what we want for this purpose.

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#15

Sorry, yes, I meant exponential.

Just tested the amp env retriggering with attack set to zero:
ANLG - only sample trigs trig the envelope.
Set to RTRG only sample trigs trig it. Trigless trigs and trigless locks do not.
Set to R+T, sample trigs and trigless trigs do retrig the envelope.
Set to TTRG, sample trigs and trigless trigs retrig the envelope (same as R+T) - manual says it will make the attack start from the current envelope level.

When you have attack not at zero it becomes a bit confusing, I’ll have to do a bit of digging…

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#16

Weird. Ive just been testing this myself. Using the filter env. Trigless trigs. Env settings ANL, RTRG, SYNC OFF, LIN.

On an audio track. 8 bar loop.

If only 1 trig to trig the sample, (fully open amp env ) any further trigless trigs give the expected behaviour.

However…

If a P locked trig, short amp env, to trig a short portion of sample, or, a single slice, any further trigless trigs retrigger the amp env.

Not cool.

#17

Amp env is set to ANLG and filter (fx1/fx2) set to RTRG?
When I do that I get no amp env retriggering and only the sample trigs trig the filter env.

#18

Correct.

OTmk1. OS 1.4a

#19

I’m also on 1.40A, Mk1.

I can’t figure out why mine is behaving differently or what it is that might make it react differently. In such cases it’s best to switch that thing off and approach it again tomorrow.

1 Like
#20

I just think that the curve is not so relevant in ducking with the filter since the effect is not as audible as volume ducking, filter release around 54-59, depth 38-40, just works for me