To the OP, what’s your latest thinking? I’m playing my old Ableton license and whilst I can see the obvious benefits, I can also see myself staying in the piano roll and struggling with shortcuts.
I can also see myself worried about perfect timing and figuring out the bpm and quantisation values instead of having fun.
I wouldn’t use Ableton without a Push 2, and if bit wig had a comparable counterpart I’d use bigwig. If neither, I’d only use hardware. Akai Force or Octatrack, depending on my goals. I have a Force now in addition to my main Live/Push set up. I alternate. Eventually I’ll have an OT MkII again, or ideally an mKIII.
I have done everything you have listed. When I mentioned the production plateau I was being specific about its connection to a lack of resources and tutorials for the 2 DAWs I currently use in order to advance my production skills.
Ableton Live 11 Suite and Push 2 is a great combo. Push 2 obviously reduces the amount of Mousing around and is very immidiate for many things. Live 11 is really great. The Push 2 works better with Ableton rather than Bitwig (IMHO) and I have both. I really love Live 11. PML has great classes regarding Electronic Music and Ableton.
You wrote that you wouldn’t use Live with Push but then also say it’s one the setups you alternate between. I’m confused.
Thank you!
UPDATE:
I’m still considering Live 11 but currently checking out Renoise as someone here suggested. Many people here misunderstood my post. I wasn’t looking for a new tool to help me get out of a creativity rut. I’m fine creatively. I was looking at Ableton to help with taking classes tutorial where most of them are done in Ableton. I’m already quite experienced but was looking at more advanced classes / tutorials / group meetups.
PML = Production Music Live, Great place.
He said without.
Why not use Ableton even without Push? It works with any Midi-thing for input. Like an analog keys. 
Ableton 11 is really great with all that randomizing stuff, expression control, and they even have a built in dub techno machine (chord dub keys). The Max devices are also amazing. And it sounds good.
Push2 dont have super fast workflow… chords and melody playing is nice but u still need use mouse a lot. Check maschine mk3 I got mine for 350e in reverb b-stock and it’s workflow is better + u can use bitwig for final mix
I was about to say the same thing. I have one and use it for really only launching clips and adjusting volumes. Other than that, it’s just a really big box that sits on my desk. An Akai APC40 could do all the same stuff (volume and clips).
The mouse is faster in every other way.
Also, if you’re looking to control and automate multiple tracks at once, you’ll need another controller.
Did you go the Ableton route in the end? I keep thinking it would be a lot simpler.
For whatever it’s worth I didn’t like the Push 2 much. It certainly doesn’t get you away from the keyboard and mouse. For clip launching and controlling some parameters it’s OK but it’s quite clunky to start from a blank slate and try to make a track. Sequencing is OK but clunky I found.
Maschine Mk3 allowed me to make music with the monitor turned off, it’s better integrated with the software and it’s much snappier performance, faster browsing etc. If you’re really tied to Live then the Push controller may help you but you’ll still be using the mouse and keyboard plenty.
Maschine also doesn’t need separate power, the USB cable to the computer is all you need. Push 2 appearance (pads and screen) is far too dim without the power supply. It’s just about bearable in a pitch black room but useless if the light is on.
One other thing - Push 2 is unnecessarily large and heavy. It feels too large and heavy for no apparent reason!
I’ll add a vote for APC40 Mk2 as well, it’s very nice and it’s works great with Ableton AND Bitwig.
man… we are truly spoiled these days, huh?
not discounting this opinion/approach. I’m just saying it’s a pretty wild thing to think about, having been with Ableton since before it could even do midi or host VST instruments, let alone have a purpose-built, tightly integrated controller. and consider that against how many options there are these days to have a purely hardware setup.
completely agree
just out of curiosity have you spent a day, two, or three just using the analog keys and nothing else?
Couldn’t sleep last night and found MPC Beats. Free, simple, instant. Made me fe-think some things.
I also found that lowering my monitor so it’s sitting directly on the desk, and reducing the brightness considerably, made it feel a lot less computer and a lot more like an instrument.
Apologies for detailing the thread a bit, I just think it’s interesting to think about DAW vs not and why this argument keeps coming up.
Do you use a controller with it?Or qwerty?
I’d get Live 11, Push 2 and keep the AK. Run the AK into Live and sample the hell out of it and throw those samples into drum racks to compose/jam with.