Should I just say f*** it, minimize my setup and move on to Ableton 11 + Push 2?

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

This is my 1st world predicament… I have been producing for a while and have hit a production and creativity plateau mostly due to working on stuff in my own bubble. I make mostly techno and trying to learn more advanced production. There are TONS of tutorials and courses for this online, but the vast majority use Ableton followed by Logic. I work on Bitwig and have Studio One for mixing. I understand most things one learns in one DAW can often be applied on another but just the workflow may differ. I’d prefer to do courses and tutorials using the same tool the instructor is using along with provided instrument / effect racks, etc. I have sold most of my hardware and just holding on to a few Elektron boxes. I have major ADD so the more gear I have, the less I get done (that’s why modular never appealed to me).

So… I bought Ableton 8 a long time ago when I had a better paying job but then due to that very job, I had no time to make music back then. I’ve steered away from Ableton for a long time due to some bvllsh*t contrarian “I wanna use something different than what everyone else is using” mentality that I think has held me back. At this point, after a very difficult year, I’m all about minimizing, simplifying, and Marie Kondo-izing my life. I’m going through a major life change right now, I just want to make more music and go beyond my current knowledge plateau with as few distractions and hiccups has possible. I’m able to upgrade to Ableton Live 11 Suite for $229 USD. I can get an Ableton Push 2 controller for about $550-600 used in great condition. I can finance this purchase by selling my Analog Keys (which I barely use). I can also sell my Bitwig and Studio One licenses. My bday is in a few days and I haven’t really treated myself to anything other than a nice pair of headphones over the past year. Shall this be my bday and getting vaccinated “revenge shopping” gift to myself? What do you Elektronauts think? Thanks!

6 Likes
#2

Honestly. I think its a journey of discovery you have to take. Because youve put up a great passionate reason to wanting to. Were all driven by motivational forces. Fighting against this will only drain you. So go for it. And come back with heightened wisdom. Thats worth more than any piece of equipment.

22 Likes
#4

From what you’ve written here, yes. Fewer paralysing decisions.

KonMari is the way.

But do you need to sell the AK right away? If you can scrape together Push 2 funds some other way or find a better deal, and box up your unused gear and store it nice and KonMari tidily for about 4 months or so, future you can decide if the new way is the true way. You might think of it as a gift for that guy.

4 Likes
#5

Based on everything I’ve read the Push 2 should work very well with Bitwig, so you may not need to change DAW. I use Bitwig also (and Live 11 Intro a little) and I’m seriously considering a Push 2. I didn’t get on that well with Maschine but the MANY videos I have watched make me think that the integration between Push 2 and Live is very good and will remove a lot of the “abstraction” that I dislike between MIDI controllers and software.

If it works 90% as well with Bitwig (which I love) then that should be a lot of fun.

I agree with @sabana - take a chance on it otherwise you’ll never know. We all have to buy and sell some (or a lot) of gear to work out what we like and what works. It’s just part of the journey.

#6

Goodness… very sagacious advice. Thanks! :pray:

1 Like
#7

The only thing I would say is that going to ableton if you are used to a linear workflow can actually be really tricksy. Arranger view is (in my opinion) flawed, and it seems to push you towards session view. Maybe bitwig is similar - I don’t know - but I find it harder to finish music in ableton than other software. It is more geared to techno, though.

I’ve stuck with it for the same reason as you are thinking of going to it though. I see a tutorial for something I like and want to be able to give it a go. Push is really nice too.

2 Likes
#8

I already have a Digitone, Digitakt, and Roland SE-02 to keep me busy. Not sure I have space left in my new room for the Keys (I’ve had to move back in with family recently) :grimacing:

#9

Just do it!

I have lots of hardware -

Ironically though, the stuff I’ve released (releasing), was done almost exclusively with Ableton Live with some hardware loops thrown in there from time to time.

But yea, if you want to make modern sounding techno, a DAW like Ableton or Bitwig or Logic or Pro Tools are needed

4 Likes
#10

That’s some nice stuff. You’ve got my vote.

Full disclosure: I’ve never used a Push 2, but a lot of people do seem to enjoy it. Still, I might wait for a seasoned expert to chime in. There might be dealbreakers we’re not aware of.

Hope it’s ok with the folks. Can be annoying af but family are the best people.

1 Like
#11

…I like it!

#12

It’s actually not bad - maybe a bit too comfortable in some ways… but much better than sleeping in a van!

1 Like
#13

Do it. Change everything up. It’s really fun and inspiring.

But, the next time you hit a wall, try not changing the gear. Change your approach, role, relationship with sound, music, art and culture instead.

9 Likes
#14

I havve Bitwig, Studio One and Analog Keys and would never trade these for ableton, but its a personal decision and what will work for you personally. I have trouble completing tracks too but I still enjoy these tools for tinkering with when the urge arises.

#16

I have a different view: get the equipment but skip the videos, tutorials, lessons every last bit of it. Find your own production techniques, they are infinite! All you learn from those videos is how to be someone else and I don’t think that’s what you are really looking for in all of this.

I think a lot of folks today are intimidated by music and set themselves to aims that are too low to satisfy their interest. Aim high, go big, shoot for the moon! If it all fails, just don’t tell anyone and keep trying.

9 Likes
#17

Ive gone back and forth between DAW only and DAWless a handful of times.

I love goofing around w hardware and recording live jams. But my best songs end up with a lot of work done in my DAW. However, I get my best ideas using hardware. So, I keep a hybrid setup these days.

Sometimes most or all the recordings I take from my hardware dont make the final version of a song. Sometimes lots of the recordings make the final cut.

I think people get too caught up in this idea of workflow. I come up w a different setup, different routing, different starting idea for each song or set of songs.

If it isn’t a matter of money I say keep the hardware if you like having it. If only to noodle. My perception is that a lot of hardware users only ever noodle and doodle.

Especially if its just a hobby I don’t feel like people need to justify keeping things they dont use often. Sure, if you dont use something for a year maybe consider selling it.

7 Likes
#18

first of all: great user name :+1:

second: what do you need from Live 11 that you can’t do in 8? or is it just that’s what the tutorials are built around? and is the Push necessary too? remember Live existed for well over a decade before Push came around, and tons of live sets and records were made on it (with versions much lower than 8).

but otherwise… if you feel you need these items, it sounds like you’re unhappy with your setup now and not using the AK anyway. so no harm in swapping it out for something else, provided you actually DO use that something else.

2 Likes
#19

Look at Maschine MK3 if yu haven’t. You can jam on your favorite VSTs without looking at the computer so it is a bit like having the advantages of both hardware and DAW, or like an MPC that runs VSTs. With the NKS standard you can browse and tweak patches on 3rd party VSTs.

#20

I only recently bought the upgrade to Live 11 myself, as well as a used, but very well cared-for Push 2.

I gave up on Live years ago because of option anxiety. Historically, I don’t do well when presented with seemingly infinite options.

What is different for me now is, I’m much better at deciding to focus on one thing, and only one thing, at a time during the process of learning to use Push 2. I’ve successfully fought off the temptation to load up on more M4L packs, more plugins, just more more more… and keep focus on the task at hand.

I did buy some Fors M4L devices to support Ess and because they’re pretty neat. And a couple of Unfiltered Audio plugins on sale. But that’s it.

So far I"ve found the integration between Push 2 and Live 11 to be seamless. Being able to use Push 2 with hardly a glance at the Live 11 screen on the computer is every bit the game-changer that I’ve heard it would be.

Barring a sudden change in personal finances, I don’t intend to sell my hardware. Live 11 + Push 2 are just additions to my setup.

6 Likes
#21

Push 2 is sick. Just a fast groovebox type setup until you need to arrange tracks.
Even then tho you can get ideas fast with the clip launching.
It even works pretty well for mixing tbh.
It does require some work on building effects and instrument racks but I used to do that separately from making music.

Talking about it makes me want to get one again!

4 Likes
#22

Read your whole post (!).
Keep it Push 2 + a maximum of 3 pieces of hardware.
Plus pedals and Eurorack. :sweat_smile:

4 Likes