this is very important for me, i love ableton and everything about it, but sometimes i need touch and just a mouse and a screen
yeah thinking about the rytm price is a bit tough especially its stuck in my head as a drum machine and i never want to pay that much for a drum machine, although it can do more than that absolutely seen some videos and the one’s i linked up in my post was a really good display of rytm’s possibilities
and the overbridge thing also with the OT i dont know what to feel about it, but im sure i can still record my audio track into ableton as a full on track from the OT no? so if i wanna add some EQ or mastering to my track i can do that
this came in mind cause push 3 just came out and its a standalone now, but its not available in my country sadly. Ableton doesnt ship to where i live, ive already checked
oh wow! i just noticed that this jam is purely with samples:)! nice :D!
correct me if im wrong but the AR seems to me that its best for performance, and that its strong point over the OT, even though the OT is labeled by elektron as in a performance machine sampler
samples are great i use them purely for percussions and drums and sometimes for textures in my tracks nothing else than that, i synthesize all of my basslines and leads and textures and all of that stuff. and thats the main selling point for me for the AR that it can do all that? i know im stuck with only 8 voices, but i usually dont need anything above that, my tracks are basically (kick,bass,lead,hats,rides,hats2,claps,and maybe toms)
but i do have lots of effect chains and and lots of mangling effects so i use lots of processing in my productions, thats why the OT feels tempting as well, that it can mangle sounds and do all sorts of weird stuff so kinda like ableton in a sense? so maybe OT fits better for that style of workflow?
Exactly, search for ‚single cycle‘ on here and you will find a few free packs like this one.
You can even go beyond subtractive synthesis on the OT. (LFO=FM, etc.)
besides the factory single cycle waveforms coming with the rytm theres Hardcore/Softcore apps you can use to generate, just a note that rytm has ±2 octaves so if you want more range you should generate couple of them with different root notes
i was considering one at first then i thought id prefer to get one of the big boxes since ive been saving up for one,
yeah ive read that it has simpler sampling capabilities but i might be doubting it too much hahah
yeah the live performing features are awesome especially with the pads routing pads to increase drive or open up a filter based on how you touch the pads is pretty sick, and also some jungle and breakbeats!!! i figured it would be easier since everyone is saying OT is very hard to learn
wait the OT has more effects than the rytm? i really enjoy effect stacking and going places with processing with effects
i know the AR has analog effects where the OT is digital but i thought they had similar effects?
wait i thought the OT can 8 audio voices? cause it has 8 midi 8 audio for samples,
i think im gonna end up with both boxes eventually hahahha the elektron loophole, but i think its good to go into my first purchase with the mentality of “im getting only one box that does everything that i want it” since i wanna save up for modular later
yes, it has 8 audio tracks and 8 midi, I meant that AR has individual out for each voice (that’s 12 tracks - 8 + 4 shared voices) that you can record separately from the individual outs or overbridge, while OT has 2 outs and 2 cue outs which I’m not sure if you can use as extra 2 outs, and OT does not have overbridge support so you must record it stereo or 4 outs max.
The OT is harder to grasp and understand. To me its harder to understand than Ableton and its samplers.
The Rytm is a lot more straight forward, AND is has overbridge which lets you stream all the tracks of the Rytm directly to separate tracks in your daw. Yes its a great feature. It has analog synth engines too.
Then OT is kinda special, stereo and long samples. But it has a learning curve, and it is bound to be replaced soon(i would say).
If youre a restless person who want results quick, go Rytm. If you have all the time in the world, maybe go OT
If you dont absolutely need samples, go/try Syntakt first. 12 tracks and easy to get going with, analog and digital synthetis. The most inviting elektron machine i would say. Good luck!
Yes indeed, you can use single cycle waveform on it. But there is no wavetable support (no lfo between multiple single cycle ).
What I do is a real old sampling tricks. I sample a synth for 2s with no ADSR and no LFO. Then I loop the sample until I found the spot without clipping. Usually it is around 1s.
The sound is generally more interesting than a single cycle.
If you are interested in wavetable. The only box from Elektron which manage that quite correctly is the model:sample. Quite weird, but I have better results on MS than on Digitakt or Rythm.
But the Rythm is for me one of the best box I have. It tick all the boxes
sorry can you elaborate more? what do you mean by tracking can be an issue ? do you mean in the mix?
i hate that they can do both makes me it even harder to choose, both can do pretty much the same thing and i kinda hate it hahahah i mean yes rytm doesnt have midi in sequencing and other stuff, but as undeceive as i am, this makes it very hard to choose
i kinda dont mind either? i was leaning more towards the rytm before, but now that i know the OT can be a synthesizer as well it makes it harder to choose since i sample drums pretty much in everytrack and dont bother with making my own drums
but even the rytm can synthesize using single cycle wave forms just like the OT and the DT so i could save up the other 2 bottom tracks for the dvco for other drums
hahah yes i was surprised as well i thought id get comments only vouching for the OT
what do you think of the 3 dvcos ? is it only good for basslines? or can do nice leads as well? some people really dislike the sound of those, however i saw a couple of vids on youtube those vcos sound crisp and nice
i would like to use both for bass and leads so not just bass duty
regarding effects, does the OT and the RYTM have the same amount of fx? i know the OT has more LFOS while the rytm has one i think? other than that should i know anything more about the differences of effects between these boxes?
will learning the AR help me out learning the OT in the future? i know theyre completely different hence the complexity other than how the sequencers work
As far as the DVCO’s, they can’t play high notes. Above a certain note number, it simply will not play a higher pitch. As far as tracking, the FM is analog, so don’t expect the pitch to track well over a large range. Meaning a fourth or fifth may not be exact, so it may sound out of tune if played with other melodic elements. But DVCO is an absolute killer for basslines
Many, many of us have bought the OT, only to sell it (and then buy it again). If you’re looking for Ableton in a box, it can do that…but it’s not where its strengths are. It can be overwhelming for a first timer. It’s an older box, any people get disappointed by the effects and time stretch qualities, until they understand their place and limitations.
The Rytm is probably the perfect techno all in one box. Don’t get hung up on synthesis vs samples. It takes time to get any of the synths sounding great. Lots of people use it exclusively with samples, and samples sound brilliant through Rytm. It will also work better with Ableton until you can figure out if you want/need any external effects boxes (e.g. a co presser is pretty much essential for techno), and all the individual outs will help you here too.
The Rytm is a much more complete instrument than the OT, and when you get the hang of it will allow you to combine an OT in the future in natural and exciting ways.
And don’t overthink it. Trying to compare the features of and OT vs AR is not going to be especially helpful. You wouldn’t compare all the features of a trumpet vs a flute. They’re completely different things that have a couple of seemingly common features.
thanks!
The OT can certainly shine for live performance too but yeah, I’d say the rytm might have a little more going for it for live tweakability, if only because the analog circuits and all of the parameters that you can affect either manually or with scenes, performance.
The dvco’s have a special sound, but are very quirky as well (weird tracking sometimes etc). They sound unlike any other synth I’ve ever used, someone on this forum once described em as having a ‘hairy’ sound, which for whatever reason sounds right to me haha. I often mix the dvco with some single cycle waveform synth (you can mix synth/sample on a single voice on the AR. The single cycle sample synths sound amazing going through all the AR’s analog circuitry, so the dvco’s are a nice bonus, but the single cycles got you covered for amazing synth sounds without tracking issues. All the needed parameters are there (filter env, amp env, drive, fx etc).
The FX are very different between the 2 machines. The OT has 2 insert fx per track, which can be picked from a list of fx. You can also use tracks to add more fx to other tracks. Most sound kinda outdated, but they all work for what they’re meant to do, and some can get very experimental. Also, there’s 3 lfo’s per track. The AR has some standard per track insert fx (analog filter, drive, one lfo) and some global send fx (delay, reverb). Then there’s also a master comp and distortion. They sound great, but there’s limited options on all of em. The upside compared to the OT is that they’re always available and don’t take up fx slots or even tracks.
between AR and OT I agree with @min0nim: get a Rytm. But I’d still advice you to look into the ST and DT as well. They are serious machines which make the step up to an AR easy. The OT has kind of a different dna then these others, so it will be easier to learn coming from the other machines, but this will still not be a walk in the park haha.
I think it’s worth pointing out that the Rytm isn’t a drum machine, more a drum computer, which might seem splitting hairs but i think this is why I struggled with my AR for so many years. It has a lot of dna taken from classic Roland gear but unlike that Roland gear it feels very different, in that it isn’t as immediate, nor sounding as good out of the box. Most drum machines are pretty preset heavy and focus around dialled in sounds that work super well together or have huge sweet spots. I found i definitely have to get the AR setup to use it in certain ways to get better results, probably why projects and kits are popular as a useful shortcut. Once you do that though it sounds pretty damn good.
I have been doing uploads to Youtube most days with free projects, mainly to push this machine to its limits and to dig deeper why I struggled initially, and already after 54 uploads, i have shifted to enjoying this bix more and more. The videos cover a range of experimental sounds, approaches that may be useful for you to help you decide your direction to create and free projects to try out, some Google Sheet to help with setting up Keyboard tracking, which for me having grown up around techno since the 90’s, super important. I think this comes from using the SH101 so much, it’s just so useful, and the Rytm doesn’t do that out of the box, but you can set it up pretty quickly and it makes a huge difference to me.
You also mention the 909, and there is a way you can do round-robin style with samples using the LFO, which does make 909/808 samples work really well. I have posted how-tos and samples elsewhere on this forum and my Github, along with AR projects most days.
The other thing is although the AR has one LFO internal per track, you can set it up to use a track as an LFO or modulator and then use one or both of the Control In’s for more LFO’s. You can even modulate the modulator. This make it sound similar from your standard LFO to env follower style or audio modulation.
I have been playing around with sampling Korg MS20 LFO shapes and using that to modulate stuff, which i will probably share later today, sounds pretty dope.
Good luck with your choices and do share your techno when you make it.
Here are some useful links for you, and anyone else who might be lurking here.
If you are looking all-in-one solution than what about Dirtywave M8? It is twice cheaper than AR or OT. It is very logical and easy to use. It has 4 synth engines (macrosynth – port of MI Braids module with big mount of different types of synth engines, 4-op fm synth with different waveforms, wavesynth – 8-bit synth, hypersynth – 13 osc polyphonic synth), sampler – supports samples of any length (streams directly from sd) and can play them in a any directions including special OSC mod for using with wavetables files (sounds fat). You can easily slice samples, record samples via line in port or usb, you can use it as a midi/usb-midi sequencer with parameter locks. It can stream screen and sound via USB port. It has parameter and sound locks on each steps. Effects (chorus, delay, reverb) sounds very nice and also can be parameter locked. Multi-mode filter is a part of sound engine and it is available for all instruments (in OT filter is an effect and occupies 1 of 2 fx slots). Great little device for any genre of music. I highly recommend you to take a look at it.
the elektron loophole, but i think its good to go into my first purchase with the mentality of “im getting only one box that does everything that i want it” since i wanna save up for modular later
makes me it even harder to choose, both can do pretty much the same thing and i kinda hate it hahahah i mean yes rytm doesnt have midi in sequencing and other stuff, but as undeceive as i am, this makes it very hard to choose
