My current 2012 Macbook Pro is beyond being on its last legs, and it seems like a refurbished older model might be my best bet.
Does anybody have any experience with buying an older refurbished mac?
I have been eying a early 2015 model from Hoxton Macs https://www.hoxtonmacs.co.uk/collections/macbook-pro, has anybody done this themselves or does anybody have a 2015 mac that still works well for them?
I just want to be able to run my synths into ableton for processing and mixing and use a few vstās without the whole thing breaking down.
āIs it worth it?ā depends on the price, maybe $800 or less would be ideal. (better deals on eBay than at your link)
the i7 quad 15" are just as fast and in some cases faster than the 2016 MBPs, and without the keyboard issues.
I use a 2016 quad i7 2.7ghz 15" and the CPU is plenty for my needs.
This very much depends on which VSTs, how many instances, and at what sample rate. If youāre flexible about this, youāll be fine. I use a few drum racks, an instance or two of Reaktor, at 44.1khz, and lots of Kush plug-ins. No issues there.
Make sure it has 16GB ram and at least 512GB HD (smaller capacity SSDs have slower performance, and less life expectancy)
I have an early 15ā 2013 MBPr that is working flawlessly to this day. I have all of NI Komplete, Maschine, Numerology 4, and Logic Pro running with no problem. I had Overbridge running perfectly at one point, but I accidentally upgraded to OSX Catalina, which is not currently supported. It helps that I also use Universal Audio Satellite and audio interfaces, which has DSP to offload some of the work from the MBPrās CPU.
Recently, I dug out my 2011 Mac Mini to run Vienna Ensemble Pro Server for hosting VSTs, like SynthMaster, Diva, Maschine, and NI Komplete Kontrol. The 2013 MBPr can run all of these program without a problem, but I like being able to justify using the old Mac Mini without putting it up for sell.
Whatever computer you get, try to hang on to your old MBP for potential Vienna Ensemble Pro Server hosting stuff.
Iāve only ever bought refurb Macs direct from the Apple store:
https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/refurbished/mac
If I was buying a MacBook Pro now, Iād get the most recent, highest spec model I could justify (within my budget), taking into account the fact that the hardware is non-upgradeable, batteries are glued in and therefore a nightmare to replace. Iād be reluctant to get anything older than a couple of generations since macOS updates tend to drop support for older models.
Have a 2015 mac second hand. But i only have the digitakt run overbridge somtimes. Its been great for me so far. So donāt know how it will handle a bunch of synths and vstās. Only problem i have had with it is the screen coating which started to fall of at some point - a known issue on that specific model - was replaced by apple fortunately with an extended service deal. But be aware of that issue at leastā¦
thanks for the detailed answer!
Im happy to use ebay, but i went for the website as they offer a warranty and seem like a reputable seller. If anyone is able to recommend a reputable ebay seller i would have no problem going there
In terms of VSTās its pretty minimal and I donāt mind being flexible about sample rate, most of the time I use it just to record and mix.
I use a few drum racks, effects and overbridge, abletons sampler and a few free synths.
And yeah id be sure to go 16gb and 512GD SSD as well.
my pleasure!
The couple of eBay sellers I trust here in the states is Quality-Macs and iSelliMac.
I bought my 2016 MBP from Quality-Macs a year ago. One thing I like about them is they are always buying old macs as well, so I have the option of trading this MBP back in for a newer model, based on what they have available. Itās something I consider often. Theyāll also buy it cash, but the trade-in value they give is about 5% higher.
https://www.ebay.com/str/qualitymacs
They donāt appear to ship overseas by default but you could always message them.
iSelliMac does ship overseas. I bought a fully loaded 27" iMac 2015 (4ghz i7, 4GB Video, 1TB SSD, 32GB Ram) for $1200 USD from them a few months ago. Total dream machine, and what I prefer to use in my studio.
Theyāre grading system was fairly accurate and I got what I expected. They have a 60 day return policy, there is a restock fee if you go over the 60 days. They also sell Macbook Pros
https://www.ebay.com/usr/isellimac
If you donāt absolutely have to be mobile, consider an i7 iMac for your audio needs and maybe keep the 2012 MBP as your daily portable?
Ah great, Iāll absolutely have a look at ebay then. Hopefully someone might be able to recommend a UK seller. Ill also be sure to check out a desktop as well, though I still think a laptop will be best for me.
Funnily I just bought a 2012 MacBook today. I sold my 2012 13" pro and for same money got a 2012 15" retina with the upgraded 2.6 GHz quad i7. Lot more computer for same money. Hopefully get a year or two out of it then Iāll get a upgraded 2015 15"
Great machines
Iāve been buying, selling and upgrading used Macs since 1994 so have some understanding of this topic. First off, the modern MacBooks are basically un-upgradable - no RAM or internal HD upgrades are possible. You can replace the battery but itās a real hassle - Apple replaced screws with glue to make the laptops thinner. As such ārefurbishedā just means the seller has wiped down the keyboard, erased the hard drive and installed the latest OS. The only thing you might get is some sort of warranty. Which IMO is of dubious value (see below).
The best way to verify that a used Mac is OK is to run Apple Diagnostics (or Apple Hardware Test on pre-2013 Macs) before purchase. More info here:
If a seller isnāt willing to let you run the test then donāt buy the Mac. If the test turns out OK then Iād buy it.
And on the topic of warranties, IMO if a Mac is going to fail it will do so within the first few months of (new) purchase. After that the computer will generally be OK for its lifetime. Apple has always provided out of warranty repairs for systemic issues (e.g. the de-laminating screens on 13" retina MBPs). I bought a 13ā MBP cheap because it had a delaminated screen. After buying it I dropped it off to Apple for a free out of warranty screen replacement - sweet!
The one caveat is modern SSDs which have limited read/writes and will randomly start to fail once these limits have been met. AFAIK thereās no way to test for this. And given that you canāt replace SSDs on modern Macs because theyāre soldered to the logic boardā¦ you have a problem. Always a tricky one, so just make sure you donāt buy a laptop from someone who edits stacks of videos!
Good luck!
In which country are you located? If US (EDIT: just noticed you are in the UK), check Microcenter for factory refurbished macs w one year warranties and ability to buy Apple care - prices canāt be beat and inventory changes regularly (Not affiliated, but in the market to upgrade my 2009 mbp At the moment)
Also, does anyone happen to know the last model year you can open a mbp and replace parts?
15" Mid 2012 MacBook Pro - RAM, HD and battery are all easy replacements. Quad core i7 too so no slouch even though itās seven years old. You can even rip out the DVD drive and replace it with another hard drive. Iām running one with 16GB RAM and two hard drives - SSD for the operating system and apps while media files are on a 1TB HDD.
Only downside is that the graphics card is showing its age so donāt think about it if you want to run it as a gaming machine. Great for audio work though.
If youāre into numbers here are the benchmarks for all Macs new and old:
The early 2013 MBPr can upgrade or replace the hard drive (msata mini SSD). I believe itās the last MBP Retina that had any upgradable parts.
my current is the 13" mid 2012 with basic everything so only 4gb ram and the most basic processor they did (not with my laptop now so cant check). would you recommend getting a 15" 2012 model so I can still replace bits? what kind of programs do you run on yours for audio work and how does it handle it?
Iām using SSDs at work for regular Android builds. These SSDs have been hit hard and have survived for at least a couple of years. Still running well.
Longevity has been surprisingly good.
In my case at work, if and when the SSDs fail, theyāll have more than paid for themselves in terms of less lost time in re-building images.
For most peopleās purposes, I donāt think thereās much to worry about with SSDs in terms of write-cycle limits. ā¦and read-cycles donāt cause any degradation.
A quick search for working out longevity of SSDs, gave me:
Also, donāt forget that SSDs donāt have moving parts, which can (and will) ultimately wear out.
Beside price, raw CPU power and on-board storage, be it RAM or any kind of disk, I would suggest to consider also,
- health status of the battery, if this is of importance for mobility, and
- how long OS updates might be available.
Thatās good news that theyāre holding up. It just annoys me that Apple donāt socket SSDs to the logic board so you can upgrade or replace if they fail. Instead youāve got to chuck out the whole logic board, which is pretty much the entire computer.
The 13ā is also upgradeable like the 15ā so it might be worth spending $150 on on an SSD and some more RAM. Youāll definitely notice a difference going from 4GB to 8 or 16GB but the biggest difference would replacing the HDD with an SSD .
The main limitation with the 13ā is the two core i5 rather than the quad core i7 on the 15ā. Regardless, it should still be fine for basic audio work.
I use Logic and Ableton and have never run into any issue tracking audio with effects plugins. Iām sure some of the newer virtual Instruments could push things a bit but IMO youāll be fine unless youāre running a truckload of instruments with reverbs on each (i.e. not using any busses).
I upgraded to a SSD a while ago and that did improve performance but Im still getting lots of problems when running ableton. Most common problems are the tempo slows down dramatically, lowering the pitch and the sound becomes super distorted or it crashes completely, its basically become unusable. It seems to me not just an upgrade to the RAM is needed but the CPU as well.