Receiving Program Change Messages Not Responding Immediately


#61

Sorry, I didn’t read the whole topic,

but will “instant” pattern jumps work on the RYTM when it’s clock synced to another device (in my case, a Sequentix P3) ?

Thanks.


#62

I suggest you do. The answer is there and it’s not a simple as a yes or no.


#65

Ok thanks.


#66

Ok so lets get this straight, Elektrons drum machines which are considered top of their class, cost one a half grand etc. Cannot receive a program change and just change the pattern, even though the machines clearly can do this because direct jump works fine with the buttons on the front, they just didnt put direct jump in the software for midi. So…these things are functionally useless if you’re sequencing from something like a deluge or a cirklon where you cant cludge it to send the message way early to cue up the pattern, which even if you could would still be ridiculous. And the only exception to this is the analog keys with the multi map work around.

Is it just me or this fundamentally mission critical for a hardware drum machine or pattern based sequencer to be able to do this?


#67

completely sympathise with you. id very much like AR to be able to simply switch.

thing is that i then look at the AR and not seeing it for what it is as it’s own object, i look at it and see it for what it means to me. by looking at it for what it subjectively means i am set up to be disappointed but if i look at it and accept the facts of what it is on it’s own, rather than what it means based functions of uniquely separate objects, focus can be shifted to what it’s uniquely capable of.

a sprinkle of phenomenology can be helpful in many cases :slight_smile:


#68

Hah. Sure but its just a shame that no one makes music solely on an AR without any other equipment. I mean even if you used ONLY elektron gear, it still wouldnt work, you still wouldnt to just have one follow the changes of the other. I mean as it stands, if your tap some melodic sequences and changes into a unit, and you want to add drum sounds that arnt just one loop, between the AR and pulling an alesis HR-16 out of a skip, the HR-16 is more capable of making it over the first hurdle of just being able to play different parts along with the song. Its ridiculous. You cant even get out of it by just sending the midi for the drum hits from the sequencer, because then the midi notes cancel out your P-locks. Once again, one a half grand, come on.


#69

Yes i concur with your points. Your argument seem to be that those functions are depending on cost, and that it should be there because cheaper and older gear has it. Also the logic seem to be that new gear should add functions on top on current functions, correct or not i can also get behind that.
The machine can operate in the confines of elektron’s design. It is what it is, not what it isn’t or what it could :wink: at least not until it is :grin:

with that said. i want newest fw and compatible ob. for real. come on. Chanukka has passed and soon christmas as well :neutral_face:


#70

This argument would be fine IF elektron had not implemented Multi Map mode more than 15 years ago, and then also not added it to the A4 while leaving it out of the AR (whihc needs it most, being a drum machine).
Direct jump mode eliminates the “MIDI not arriving on time” non-issue.
Even if this could be a problem, all we’ re asking from elektron is to add the Multi Map mode in and we 'll deal with any timing problems.

This omission is clearly (to me and many others) a result of a marketing decision to deliberately leave some features out of some machines so as to promote a “collect them all” situation. It’s a tactic copied from the hideously exploitative video games industry and is execrable, IMO.

Is it so hard to see that program change messages are entirely inadequate for synchronising patter changes??? Ableton Live (the most popular DAW in this scene) only sends PC messages at the start of a clip and does not even respond to PC messages, so you cannot trigger clips or scenes in Live when changing patterns on the AR. :rage:
Also, the MIDI protocol gives PC messages low priority…

I think I speak for many here: This issue keeps coming up and we insist on it because the AR is otherwise a killer drum machine!! If it was a piece of crap we’d just sell it and move on, but we don’t want to sell it. We want this machine to be as good as it could be!!!


#71

I want to hear from elektron how they reasoned when leaving multi map. As i recall the MM had it and extensive midi capabilities (as did MD), at least A4 has multi map.

I use Live as well and the nr 1 problem i have is the broken pattern change. A guy on FB wrote a work around in a AR/MD group as well as a solution to individual audio tracks being recorded a bit to late cutting the start which is a no-go with drums and perc.

I also agree on that i want the AR to be as good as i can be but i thats not profitable according to market pro’s so it is actively avoided by design. Of topic but apple is the only company i know that disables functionality in units to hurry new sales, horrible but still in their power and right. The gaming industry standard is on a whole other level to me and im having a hard time talking about it without losing my temper. And the games… they make a game, slice it up in four/five parts and sell the first part full price. It’s even standard to sell the game almost a year before it’s tried and released - and to get the whole experience you buy almost four full price games. Before it’s released. They could have released the whole game OR rolled out the “expansions/dlc” sequentially, but no, we buy in to that shit because reasons.

I wasted leave time on fallout 76 and the day before i was back to work bethesda cut the price on that piece of trash game, and im not even one of those angry non forgiving no-lifing-living in moms basement kind of nerds anymore. FFFff…


#72

This forum is almost 5 years old and nobody from Elektron have actually answer anything directly to the problem. Just standard answers that don’t address the main issue.


#73

Wow, just read through this whole thread. I don’t believe anyone has suggested an alternate functionality that the Program Change message simply triggers a swap of kit/pattern rather than cue the next? If the AR “hears” the PC message on step one, loads the next pattern and kit by step 2, 3 or 4 and continues along from whichever step it would naturally be synced at, why would that not work? Seems like the most reasonable solution to me.

Elektron needs to address this functionality. This is a bug, not a feature. Please address this in an update because as it stands right now, this renders the units unusable for what looks to be many performers.

I’ve already cut the Analog Keys from my live performance rig due to similar limitations. I love the sound of the Rytm but finding workarounds for poorly implemented functionality is a waste of what would otherwise be creative time (which is the whole reason we spend so much money on this gear!).

I checked the Rytm OS 1.45 release notes, it still hasn’t been addressed by the looks of it so I will forego the upgrade for now.


#74

i agree this seems easy enough to fix


#75

is not a work around


#76

The A4 and the AK actually can do this by utilizing the multimap (not by program changes, but by sending configurable midi notes to the machine). It can jump immediately to another pattern starting there from the first step or continuing from where it left the previous pattern. IMHO these machines are the most flexible when it comes to remotely jumping between pattern.

I wonder why the multimap feature never got implemented on the other machines …

About the Rytm: how can a missing feature which was never advertised to be there be a bug? There is a manual everyone can explore before buying to see exactly what’s there and what’s missing.


#77

Besides no direct changing, normal PC change is broken on AR when using advanced mode (individual track length), chng parameter does not work, doesn’t work in chain or song mode either, only for manual sequential pattern change. Been awhile since I tested so can’t post specifics, I think it changes after master length which can be quite a long time, need to test again. Have mentioned it several times including here:


#78

This requires the reader to have 100% comprehension of a technical document for a piece of equipment they may never have touched in real life. That’s asking a lot. Maybe Caveat Emptor would be a better argument. To be fair, I read the manual before buying the Rytm and it was my understanding that “Direct Jump” would do what I described, as it’s name might suggest but it doesn’t, it behaves the same as the other functions.