Receiving Program Change Messages Not Responding Immediately

Yes i concur with your points. Your argument seem to be that those functions are depending on cost, and that it should be there because cheaper and older gear has it. Also the logic seem to be that new gear should add functions on top on current functions, correct or not i can also get behind that.
The machine can operate in the confines of elektron’s design. It is what it is, not what it isn’t or what it could :wink: at least not until it is :grin:

with that said. i want newest fw and compatible ob. for real. come on. Chanukka has passed and soon christmas as well :neutral_face:

This argument would be fine IF elektron had not implemented Multi Map mode more than 15 years ago, and then also not added it to the A4 while leaving it out of the AR (whihc needs it most, being a drum machine).
Direct jump mode eliminates the “MIDI not arriving on time” non-issue.
Even if this could be a problem, all we’ re asking from elektron is to add the Multi Map mode in and we 'll deal with any timing problems.

This omission is clearly (to me and many others) a result of a marketing decision to deliberately leave some features out of some machines so as to promote a “collect them all” situation. It’s a tactic copied from the hideously exploitative video games industry and is execrable, IMO.

Is it so hard to see that program change messages are entirely inadequate for synchronising patter changes??? Ableton Live (the most popular DAW in this scene) only sends PC messages at the start of a clip and does not even respond to PC messages, so you cannot trigger clips or scenes in Live when changing patterns on the AR. :rage:
Also, the MIDI protocol gives PC messages low priority…

I think I speak for many here: This issue keeps coming up and we insist on it because the AR is otherwise a killer drum machine!! If it was a piece of crap we’d just sell it and move on, but we don’t want to sell it. We want this machine to be as good as it could be!!!

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I want to hear from elektron how they reasoned when leaving multi map. As i recall the MM had it and extensive midi capabilities (as did MD), at least A4 has multi map.

I use Live as well and the nr 1 problem i have is the broken pattern change. A guy on FB wrote a work around in a AR/MD group as well as a solution to individual audio tracks being recorded a bit to late cutting the start which is a no-go with drums and perc.

I also agree on that i want the AR to be as good as i can be but i thats not profitable according to market pro’s so it is actively avoided by design. Of topic but apple is the only company i know that disables functionality in units to hurry new sales, horrible but still in their power and right. The gaming industry standard is on a whole other level to me and im having a hard time talking about it without losing my temper. And the games… they make a game, slice it up in four/five parts and sell the first part full price. It’s even standard to sell the game almost a year before it’s tried and released - and to get the whole experience you buy almost four full price games. Before it’s released. They could have released the whole game OR rolled out the “expansions/dlc” sequentially, but no, we buy in to that shit because reasons.

I wasted leave time on fallout 76 and the day before i was back to work bethesda cut the price on that piece of trash game, and im not even one of those angry non forgiving no-lifing-living in moms basement kind of nerds anymore. FFFff…

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This forum is almost 5 years old and nobody from Elektron have actually answer anything directly to the problem. Just standard answers that don’t address the main issue.

Wow, just read through this whole thread. I don’t believe anyone has suggested an alternate functionality that the Program Change message simply triggers a swap of kit/pattern rather than cue the next? If the AR “hears” the PC message on step one, loads the next pattern and kit by step 2, 3 or 4 and continues along from whichever step it would naturally be synced at, why would that not work? Seems like the most reasonable solution to me.

Elektron needs to address this functionality. This is a bug, not a feature. Please address this in an update because as it stands right now, this renders the units unusable for what looks to be many performers.

I’ve already cut the Analog Keys from my live performance rig due to similar limitations. I love the sound of the Rytm but finding workarounds for poorly implemented functionality is a waste of what would otherwise be creative time (which is the whole reason we spend so much money on this gear!).

I checked the Rytm OS 1.45 release notes, it still hasn’t been addressed by the looks of it so I will forego the upgrade for now.

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i agree this seems easy enough to fix

is not a work around

The A4 and the AK actually can do this by utilizing the multimap (not by program changes, but by sending configurable midi notes to the machine). It can jump immediately to another pattern starting there from the first step or continuing from where it left the previous pattern. IMHO these machines are the most flexible when it comes to remotely jumping between pattern.

I wonder why the multimap feature never got implemented on the other machines …

About the Rytm: how can a missing feature which was never advertised to be there be a bug? There is a manual everyone can explore before buying to see exactly what’s there and what’s missing.

Besides no direct changing, normal PC change is broken on AR when using advanced mode (individual track length), chng parameter does not work, doesn’t work in chain or song mode either, only for manual sequential pattern change. Been awhile since I tested so can’t post specifics, I think it changes after master length which can be quite a long time, need to test again. Have mentioned it several times including here:

This requires the reader to have 100% comprehension of a technical document for a piece of equipment they may never have touched in real life. That’s asking a lot. Maybe Caveat Emptor would be a better argument. To be fair, I read the manual before buying the Rytm and it was my understanding that “Direct Jump” would do what I described, as it’s name might suggest but it doesn’t, it behaves the same as the other functions.

is not a bug, it’s a way Elektron works, pc needs to be received around 200ms before.
Octatrack send it accordingly

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With a midi processor, if you map any midi message to Stop / Prog Change / Play, so you have instant pattern change. Works with OT, pretty sure it works with all Elektrons.
I’ll try later with AR and A4, I have something bigger :

Not sure about others but OT / A4 / AR responds to SPP (Song Pointer Position) in song mode.
I could map midi notes to SPP, hence directly play any step of a song (Arranger in OT), or change patterns with direct jump, quantized to steps. Works like a charm with OT.

Cheap working example : 4 arranger (song) rows, same pattern, 4 different scenes (pitch). A midi track with arp change arranger rows randomly, on step 5 and 13. Direct jump.

Can’t wait to test with the Dark Trinity, it should work similarly, I should be able to transpose on the fly the 3 machines, playing midi notes, short breaks, arpegiate patterns, etc…:loopy:

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Got a bit excited when i read about the OS update to 1.5 today. Unfortunately Direct Change via Prog Change from a DAW has still not been implemented for AR.
So yeah, just leaving a slightly frustrated comment here with the hope someone from the stuff will find this 5 year old (!) thread and include this function in the next OS update… (never giving up hope)

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While I’m thrilled about ability to send MIDI sequences out of the Rytm/Keys, the feature you mentioned plus the ability to do full backup and restore are all I’m left wanting. I don’t know what I’ll do if I’m on tour and my Rytm gets stolen. How would anyone possibly manage to replace it and restore every pattern, kit, and sample on the +Drive etc.

One more voice here to add to the frustration over this. Also just got the AR, under the assumption that Direct Jump would work as with any other device… I could deal with the other limitations but c’mon elektron… such a bummer

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everyone should open a ticket with Elektron about this. I am

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I know I posted this in a different thread but it’s valid here too.

If you’re using Overbridge with Ableton Live and Max for Live I made a device to solve this issue. New version will allow it to be used without Overbridge.

It sends the program change when you arm a clip instead of when the clip starts playing.

https://www.maxforlive.com/library/device/5710/overbridge-pattern-clips

UI is wonky but it’s a device that doesn’t need direct user interaction (Except naming of clips). I’ll make it look nicer soon.

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If you happen to be using Ableton Live, you can just set the clip Quantize on your program change MIDI clip to “None” in the clip properties and it will change patterns instantly (this is the only thing I have found to work for me)

Amazing work!! Thank you for this!

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Thanks and you’re welcome! I’m happy you find it helpful. :smile:

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