Question on clocking for recording

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#1

Ok, I’m not with my OT right now, but am thinking this over and will not be able to sleep until I figure it out.

If I want to record my OT and RYTM, as well as my analog synths into ableton, and I have 22 inputs allowing me to do it via tascam model 24, but what to avoid sync issues so I can add some vst synths as well in sync, can I do this:

Send sync from ableton to OT, and thru to RYTM

Set OT to receive transport but not clock, and RYTM to receive transport but not clock.

Then set the tempo of ableton, OT and RTYM all to the same bpm since I have no tempo changes and set my synths tempos as well (they all allow me to set bpm).

Then, all will trigger in time due to transport start and stop, but no sync drift because I’m not sending clock, instead manually setting matching bpm.

Will this work so everything lines up pretty well, minus audio interface latency which can be offset with compensation.

I’m tired and am not around my gear, so maybe I’m not thinking straight.

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#3

Best way I have found to sync Ableton is not to sync it… Just trigger your VST’s with the midi channels of your OT- record it all into Ableton and find the first bass drum (first beat). Tell Ableton to warp from there. Or have a pattern with just a 4/4 bass drum pattern just for 16 steps before you start recording. I have a friend that says he has very good latency with his RME soundcard, but I myself spent too much of my time trying to get Ableton to sync with external MIDI. I no longer even try. I enjoy using the Elektron sequencer anyways.

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#4

There are also countless threads about this. Google came up with a bunch. Ableton and Octatrack Sync

#5

You can have the OT receive/send both MIDI Clock and Transport, then send MIDI to the AR via MIDI IN with a MIDI DIN cable (MIDI OUT of OT to MIDI IN of AR). This will allow the OT to receive MIDI clock from Ableton, with Ableton as the master clock, to send to the AR. Just make sure that you’re only sending the clock to the OT in Ableton. Set AR to receive MIDI Clock and Transport. In AR’s MIDI - Port Config menu, set INPUT FROM MIDI+USB and OUTPUT TO MIDI+USB.

#6

Yes, I’ve read most of them. What I’m trying to do is Remmeber if I can send and receive transport independent of clock, and manually set the bpm so I don’t run into jitter. If I just send start and stop it will never drift. Maybe this is stupid, it’s been a long day.

#7

Hmmm…That is an interesting question.

#8

It will get drift if you go about manually matching tempos on each device without assigning either Ableton or one of your devices as the master clock. It may cause phase and sound issues that is sometimes hard to pinpoint because it will still sound in time.

#9

On the the OT, from what it says in the midi settings, yes, you can turn off send/receive and just turn on transp. Whether your master plan will work I support your effort, just don’t waste sleep over it😆

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#10

Yes, phase issues for sure unless you monitor the daw return. There should be no phase issues on the actual recordings, as each sound is multitracked individually. 4 mono sounds from OT, 8 drum sounds from RYtM, and all synths on individual channels.

Unless I’m forgetting something.

#11

Yea I’m going to bed, I’ll figure it out tomorrow when I get home. It’s just an idea.

#12

ERM Multiclock. Bomber solid sync and worth every penny. Depends how much tracking you do and what having rock solid timing is worth to you.

For me, I was sick of sync and drift issues when trying to marry software and hardware.

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#13

No phase issues if you’re bouncing down individual tracks at the same tempos. But still, I notice small MIDI jitter in tempo between individual devices that can sometimes, say - make a bass and kick not quite work. Nothing too serious in the grand scheme of things, especially if it adds to the groove of your track. At the end of the day, you can always quantize the audio in Ableton.

#14

You would be better having the Rytm the master via overbridge clock because it’s so tight to abletons clock with delay compensation on.
then midi out to the Octatrack and other gear and it should all sync properly.
I don’t have any issues this way

You Just have to adjust the delay at bottom of channel if sending midi out of ableton
as it isn’t compensated.

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#15

I tried what I was talking about today. Works perfectly. Recorded 22 audio tracks in from my OT, synths, and RYTM with them all receiving transport but no clock. Then set all the tempos to match on the individual devices, and it was rock solid. Recorded 3 minutes of audio, picked a random 4 bar section 2 minutes or so in, perfectly in time on playback. Looped the beginning, perfectly in time. Looped the last 4 bars, perfectly in time. Only off by the 7 ms I have in latency from the interface.

So I can multitrack with ease now, all in time.

The key is approaching it like you would MTC, which sends transport but no tempo.

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#16

Whatever works the best for you is the go, but still think you should be able to sync it and it is possible

#17

If I develop a need I will try this. For now, what I came up with seems to work. I would much rather multitrack with audio than use overbridge, I’m more used to an analog style type recording. It just aligns in my brain easier.

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#18

Cool yeah, I just meant use Overbridge for clock. All good If it’s all working for you

#19

Hmm, maybe I’m confused then. Can I use overbridge but still record from the individual output on the back?

#20

I’d also recommend the OT as the master for the other hardware instead of having all of the hardware free running. OT has solid timing, and hardware sync should be pretty tight with most gear (but every piece of gear’s own clock will probably run at a slightly different speed than every other piece of gear). As long as you have USB out of the picture everything else should work pretty well. The USB protocol is where the timing problems get in, as long as you have a way to get things in sync without involving MIDI over USB (on a general purpose computer with a multitasking OS, hardware USB MIDI hosts are usually fine as far as I know, sound slike Overbridge might be OK - has anyone done any jitter testing with Overbridge? Do Overbridge devices show up as class-compliant MIDI hardware or do they need a special driver or host plugin to wrok at all? If they’re runing as class compliant MIDI hardware they almost definitely have potential for jitter problems) you’re probably good.

The last straw for me was a couple years ago when I tried to create some arpeggiated chords by recording the MIDI output from the Juno while I played it and then recording the audio in a few passes with different transposition and arpeggiator settings. Not only was it impossible to get the timing of the notes to line up well between even two passes, it wouldn’t even reproduce the original performance with the Juno’s arpeggiator synced to clock from the DAW because the jitter was so bad that thearps themselves had really noticeably sloppy timing that ruined the feel of them, plus the timing of the note on messages was off enough it wouldn’t trigger the arps the same way as when I played them to begin with. Started putting money aside for a Usamo the next day and never looked back.

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#21

I use overbridge for multitrack but I’m pretty sure I tried, and think you can.