You daw kids are used to all your plugs and 64 tracks and endless amounts of lfo’s and 3715620 voice polyphony and shit.
I’m happy if I can get eight stereo samples running at the same time.
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Or stereo samples at all.
To be fair, i never said it is not finished 
The things I mentioned are just things that I would really love to see added because that would make it truly standalone and more powerful than anything currently available. It’s still a very capable and powerful standalone groove box, synth, sampler, instrument etc.
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Not saying you did 
I’m pointing out a general observation I’m seeing everywhere, not just on this forum.
And I was confused.
I’m less confused now, tho
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That SA can do
Like I said, it’s not that difficult to create your own template with macro controls and some extra modulation etc. to create your own personal groovebox. And then never look at ableton again. It’s not needed, but that is possible and that way nothing really can compete atm.
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If you want a groovebox with a very powerful sequencer and loads of utility to sketch out tracks that feel pretty close to finished, Push 3 is great. Possibly the best there is. But it shines best when you set things up in Live first - I really don’t think it would be great to use without ever connecting to a computer.
There are a lot of complaints, some of which I share (bugs that completely stop midi note editing until Push is reset, weird m4L implementation, absent parameters for some devices on SA). But right now they’re not quite enough to make me give up on it. The sketches I produce on Push are far more complete than on any other groovebox I’ve used including my MPC.
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Yes, you can actually do that.
But to get the full Push experience, you need at least Ableton Live Standard. The suite is then just a bit more of everything, but also the mentioned synthesizers Wavetable, Analog, Operator.
Of course you could buy them all separately (afaik), but that would almost be a waste. And without them, the Push experience wouldn’t be the same.
In my opinion, Push makes no sense without a Live license. And that brings us full circle, because in the end you’ll have to live with Live somehow, even if you only have Push.
Edit: Addendum
You can use Push without Live at all, that’s for sure.
You can even get relatively far without Live (DAW), even in the Intro version. Unfortunately, Intro is limited to 16 audio and MIDI tracks and 16 scenes, but that can be enough if you’re used to a groovebox workflow anyway.
But what I personally would miss most in Intro would be External instrument (self-explanatory) and the CV tools, I can’t understand why these are missing in the standalone version.
You get Simpler (best) and Drum/Instrument Racks (big) plus the Session View features (clips and warp fun) plus a decent amount of effects (Autof!lter).
That’s actually enough to keep up with, if not surpass, most grooveboxes on the market (imho). MPE is also included, practically for free.
If all that is enough for your music, it’s a very good product.
And for me personally, it would be enough if I wasn’t so spoiled by Live (DAW).
So it would be really interesting to see how someone who doesn’t know Live (DAW) would get along with Push (+Intro).
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Thanks 
I’m out.
I was never in.
But I’m out, all the same.
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If only there was a way for you to secure the device for a decent amount of time without too much, if any, financial loss, to try it out. 
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If only 
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I would actually be very curious to read about the experience of someone using a Push 3 Standalone to make music without Live.
I cannot separate the two in my mind, nor in how I work, so it would be interesting to see the device from that perspective.
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I bought my Push 3 stand alone at release and for the first few months of ownership I essentially used it as a completely stand alone instrument / sketchpad.
I find it very expressive (the pads and MPE is great) and relatively easy to learn/use in that mode. I was quite productive using it that way in terms of getting ideas down, working out grooves, playing around with song structures, etc. I found it at least as productive as my Akai Force (which now sits lonely in my gear closet), and it is very convenient moving it around my studio/office to record various synths, or carrying it out to the back porch for an afternoon outside jam session.
In the last month or so I’ve turned more of my attention to the integration between Push 3 and Live itself but I’m still using it purely standalone quite a bit.
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I’m in a similar boat to @pmags for the most part. I had only connected to the computer to transfer samples and update it, until a couple weeks ago. It has been a great standalone groovebox and I’ve been incredibly productive on it when using it on its own, despite my distaste for Ableton’s stock synths. Despite the productivity, I run into issues where a parameter isn’t accessible in a synth or a routing isn’t possible (the Max4Live LFO, for instance). Usually I can just ignore the limited synth parameter access as almost everything you actually need is there, but not being able to map the LFO hurts - I use a lot of them when I’m composing or arranging in Live. I also find that the music I make on the Push by itself doesn’t sound like me. It sounds like Ableton. Which I’m learning to embrace, but it has been jarring for me. I was roughly as productive when I paired it with my Typhon and S-1, though slightly less inclined to use that small setup on a lazy day (because it required faffing about with more devices, not because of the Push - the External Instrument device makes it incredibly easy to map erm, external instruments).
As I’ve started to look at playing a live set, this is when I’ve realized that using it with Live for preparatory groundwork will - for me personally - be a requirement at some point. There’s just too much prep that is far easier or completely necessary to do in Live itself, particularly performance macros and instrument racks. I have a lot to learn there, as I haven’t performed live yet, so I’m sure that makes it seem even more complicated to me than it probably is.
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I’m like completely turned off now, to the point where I’d give the MPC a go again before this.
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Thank you, @pmags and @m0ld, for sharing your experiences. I still use my Standalone quite often, but the use case seems to shift. Early on it was sound design and sketching, lately it’s been sending CV and sampling/recording my MNEasel (Make Noise Easel 
)
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That’s totally fair. It definitely isn’t a device for everyone, and the things that bother me may not bother somebody else (and some things that might bother you may not bother me). I truly think that it is the most powerful groovebox on the market but you are leaving some of the power on the table if you never hook it up to a computer.
To be completely honest though, if the midi note editing bug isn’t fixed in a few months I might consider moving back to the MPC. My other hangups are relatively minor, but this one literally stops my creative flow, forcing me to turn off the push and boot it up again
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On an entirely different note, can anyone tell me what’s up with m4L devices? Why does it save copies of them into my projects? Why do I have like four copies of one of my m4L Devices in the Max Devices folder? I’ve tried searching the thread and had a hard time finding the answers I’m looking for even though I know they are in here.
In the Ableton forum this was confirmed as a known bug by the moderators. Do you have the latest beta installed? I don’t have the beta, so I can’t tell you if this has been fixed.
I feel like I’ve read about quite a few bugs here and on the Ableton forum with this beta release, so I haven’t bothered with it. Maybe after my live set.
Oha, that’s good to know.