Yes, maybe I am being unclear or even mixing different issues. Apologies.
I have tried the Push 1 p-lock method and it works fine for Ableton instruments. But I’d love to customize my VST param layout on the Push screen or banks or whatever the terminology is - so I can focus only on what I want to for a particular instrument. Basically just more control and customization, not simply a gigantic list of parameters that I might not ever use. Make sense?
It’d be cool if Ableton made some sort of editor/librarian app for this - where you could take Diva, for instance, and then arrange, name, and color all it’s parameters that you wished to use in the bank groups.
Seems like there was something else that grated on my nerves about using the Ableton p-locks but I’m at work and not where I can test on the push right now. Maybe it was simply the hard to decipher abbreviations for more complex instruments made p-locking more difficult when I couldn’t remember what something stood for?
Anyways, just thinking out loud.
Still so fucking convoluted with options, as opposed to an Elektron box where you almost stop looking at the display after a while.
Not yet sure where I stand on this. Seems to me like everyone is always hyping on about all the options with elektron gear like it’s one of the selling points? And I don’t see how you’d need to look at the push screen any more than you do on elektron stuff to do similar things? I don’t really see having ‘more’ options as a bad thing, a lot of those options will be way less convoluted than doing the same thing on elektron gear… Only recently bought OT and I’ll lose £300 if I sell so I’m kinda fighting wanting Push. But this has me seriously thinking about a surface pro + ableton combo. Just wish Push had integrated soundcard/inputs/outputs. Not a deal breaker tho.
Exactly. Most of the time you give up and look up on your computer screen instead, because it’s so much faster. Which kinda defeats the initial purpose of Push. Workflow does look improved on Push 2, but the general Ableton workflow is unfortunately still stuck in 2006
If you’re thinking about Surface pro, consider Bitwig instead. Looks like they are not doing it wrong
before selling your hardware do this:
lock all your synths and stuff in a room and give a friend the key.
tell your friend, no matter what, he must not give you the key.
then try to make music only with the computer for about 2 weeks.
then pay the kicked in door.
seriously, i strongly believe the limitation of hardware
together with it’s analoge sound is the main point.
that you can do more with a computer, no question.
but is it better for you ?
(unless you are a pro EDM producer of course… )
This post speaks straight out from my heart 
Exactly. Most of the time you give up and look up on your computer screen instead, because it’s so much faster. Which kinda defeats the initial purpose of Push. Workflow does look improved on Push 2, but the general Ableton workflow is unfortunately still stuck in 2006
If you’re thinking about Surface pro, consider Bitwig instead. Looks like they are not doing it wrong[/quote]
Yeh very interested in bitwig/surface pro combo. But not really keen on touch screen…Prefer pads/buttons/knobs. Was really keen to not use a computer at shows but Push 2 + surface pro + decent midi/audio interface has me thinking at least… What I’d really love is elektron to overhaul the OT in a format similar to push, work some magic and allow vst installation in the box, tidy up OT work flow and give it a shot in the arm in terms of track count, polyphony, on board file/preset handling, straightforward way to record/import separate stems to daw for mixing etc. Basically everything that push 2 seems to give in a hands on way. Really really don’t want to involve a computer in live set up or for home random jamming etc but beginning to wonder that maybe with the current options out there arriving I might be cutting my nose to spite my face?
IMHO Push is a great tool for working in the studio and a much better interface to Ableton than having the GUI/mouse combination only. The Elektron boxes are to me instruments and I like them better for jamming and performing live.
From my experience working with Elektron boxes I would say, there is less menu diving required during a performance, than working with Push … okay … if you know your buttons by hart.
I have Push 1 and the AR and A4.
With OB, its a fantastic combination. But Ive been a Live user for years, I dont seem to hate it like some people do. I still love Live to this day and it always surprises me. It’ll always be the brains for me.
But yes with Push 1 i think its biggest failing was actually Instrument control. The little blocky text just got you lost, i never rocked it and would just end up back on the mouse (which im fine with tbh). Push 1’s strengths were step sequencing, playing notes and chords and session performance - I think Push 2 will fix up a lot of the Instrument interface problems - it really looks fantastic.
Really, this should have been Push 1. But in any case I’m glad its finally here in the proper form it should be in. I’ll definately be upgrading in the new year - and also, the whole hardware trade in thing is just amazing and Ableton should be applauded for that.
But I’m not about to get rid of my Elektron boxes, I love them too and the setup across OB and Live gives a brilliant symbiosis between the two workflows, I’ve never been more stoked with my setup and Push 2 will only unify it more I think.
Oh and for what its worth, whether its Push 3 or Push 4 or 5, I think Ableton will eventually get to the point where Push is refined and refined until its Ableton in a box and it runs completely standalone.
BINGO !!!
BINGO !!! [/quote]
… and that’s why you should even park your Elektrons for a while and get grooving on your Monotribe or similar - less is often more
.
after the Atari, using a computer got progressively more infuriating - hitting a sweet spot without having things outside your control mess it up is nigh on impossible now that apple craps out an os every month - it could/should be fun, but in practise it is a pain or expensive keeping up - freeze a setup when it works and keep your fingers crossed it doesn’t die, which three of my Macs have - as said, you turn on and go with these boxes, they sound and flow great and they’ll work just the same in 20+years
I might give another try to Ableton Live but the last time i’ve tried the 8 and 9 demo i had crashs just after a few hours of use with a vanilla installation (no external vst plugins) so for live use it was a no go for me.
This is seriously going to challenge my Octatrack, but probably not replace it. It does have me thinking about giving up some stuff to get a A4 / AK again, because Overbridge. Currently I’ve got my computer and hardware setups separate but I think this might bring them back together again.
So far the best thing about Live 9.5 for me is Simpler’s polyphonic slice playback. which is now my #1 feature want for an OT Mk2, even above Overbridge and more I/O.
I loaded in some drum sample chains I made for the OT and it was something like 2 hours later when I came up for air. All I did was program one bar, some pitch automation, and play with the new MS2 filter with some drive applied.
Big downside for me is no manual slice grid in Simpler. I will blow up the Ableton forums asking for manual slice grids which are preserved when loading in new samples. (and better yet, the ability to convert recorded loops into an already existing, pre-sliced Simpler.)
Then watch out Octatrack.
This post speaks straight out from my heart :)[/quote]
Agreed! That being said really want to try PUSH2 with my Elektrons Overbridged up so I can try and make some Pro EDM to pay the bills and so I can keep making Lo-Fi VF tapes haha.
I love Ableton Live, and for years worked within that rabbit hole using controllers, Bomes, Max4Live and Reaktor.
Things changed for me when I incorporated a slimPhatty.
Suddenly all that mouse tweaking and sound chasing went away as almost every patch on the Moog sounded perfect to me.
It blew my mind how much time I had been wasting.
Ableton’s marketing approach since the APC40 has been to “appear laptopless.” It’s reached it’s peak I guess with promo videos of the laptop hidden in the podium.
Whats interesting is the contradictory re-branding statement “the laptop is the most intimate instrument.”
Sometimes those old ways and plugins look alluring to me again.
Then I think about that line “the most intimate instrument.”
Yeah, in other words you spend so much time chasing the dragon it’s as if you and the laptop are one.
No thanks.
Push 2 looks fun, but it’s connected to a black hole, I refused to get sucked in to that again, especially when there’s a hardware renaissance happening.
Besides, in 20 years the Push will be incompatible and worth pennies.
A Korg Volca will probably increase in value and still work.
In the end it’s kind of like,
it’s a good thing the computer workflow is so fast, somewhere you gotta make up for all the lost time.
Wow. This might actually be the best OTB vs. ITB discussion I’ve seen. I think we’re over the negativity slump that happened around the Overbridge beta? 
All this has given me a lot of food for thought. The fact of the matter is, I have to get rid of things – most probably at least my mixer, as a result of lack of space. But yeah – I think it could be a costly mistake to let all my HW go. I know a bit about the black hole that is endless possibilities. Looking at you, DAW.
If you got a decent mixer - don’t give it away.
My OTB setup is built around a mixer, well, not that kind of a 32-channel-and-more board, but some analog mixing power seems to me essential.
I used to have a Zed14, great mixer but huge.
Thought about getting one of the smaller Zeds, still waiting on those Soundcraft MTK reviews before I pull the trigger.
I flip-flop on gear/setup decisions as much as anyone. Now, after only 1 evening of playing with the old Push 1 and Live 9.5, I think I’m back to where I was - enjoying my Juno 106, MS20 mini, and AR for their lack of endless options, great sounds, dedicated controls (at least on the 106 & MS20), and unique character. Each one serves it’s purpose. It’s like a little R2D2 sitting there happily waiting to be used.
The Push on the other hand… well, last night I definitely remembered why it was relegated to playing odd scales and melodies. It is the portal to a black hole of endless options, like others have so eloquently stated. I sat there scrolling through endless presets, fx, plug-ins, max4live devices, samples, etc. This one sounds .0003% better than the last thing I tried… no wait, this new one sounds .00007% better, fantastic! Two hours go by and I haven’t done shit. Fun, sure, I guess, but no progress is made and I’m left with a very unsatisfied feeling in the end, to be honest.
I walk over to the Rytm and quickly make a decent beat. Don’t have many samples loaded in right now, so it’s not endless choices. Record a bassline from the Juno, record some stabs from the Juno, and play a decent little melody from the MS20 (triangle wave). Done. Decent start to a song and had fun doing it, using my hands, walking around the room.
The Push can’t ever be like those dedicated instruments. From one second to the next it is Diva, Synplant, Simpler, Drum rack, Operator, reverb, saturation, compressor, etc… All the controls are constantly changing. Just feels strange to my brain. Way less satisfying than playing the Juno, etc.
Even after saying all that, the Push 2 looks pretty good, especially for budget-conscious hobbyists like myself. I would save a ton of money selling the hardware and just dealing with the quirks of using software. But… can’t quite bring myself to get rid of my hardware just yet.
This is my big reason, less is more. I listen to some of my software tracks, and they’re good/fun, but I remember how long it would take me to get there.
I find that a DAW is fantastic for arranging your sounds, but creating those sounds, at least for me, is a lot more fun and focused using hardware.
I’ve been wanting to buy a decent multi-input interface to start working in the box again, primarily just arranging what I record as using two song modes side by side is cause for insanity.