Hehe - as the OP, I feel like I should clarify the title of this thread a bit. That was simply the thought in my head: What if I replaced my Elektrons with a Push 2? There was no intention to ruffle anything, just to make an either-or comparison.
Later on, I’ve found that I won’t be parting with the Elektrons. I really, really like the Push workflow, but I like the Elektrons more. So if somebody sets up that “Dark trinity WITH Push 2” thread, I’ll be subscribing stat 
I’ve been aware of that research on simplicity for some time, but when I entered the electronic music instruments world, and inevitably encountered the notion of “workflow,” a term totally foreign to the acoustic instrument domain I had lived in before, I found myself wrestling with the findings of that research more than ever before.
In my intense love for Teenage Engineering’s OP-1, I find piercing truth in that research, extolling the virtue of simplicity and thoughtful, intentional limitation. But in Push 2, I see something I may actually love even more. It has partly to do with a fluid (or convenient) workflow, partly to do with unlimited access to sounds and effects, and other things as well. But that is all contradictory to why I love the OP-1, and the very illuminating research on how our brains function.
I’ve been trying to figure out if it is the simple contradiction that it seems to be or if there is a finer nuance—why I can love something that is low on options and another that promises the world, why some people actually prefer infinite options and power and if the two can co-exist within the same person.
In the TED link, there is a commenter who says something I think may make sense of this:
"This is an interesting problem but the speaker completely missed the mark! No, it is not about expectations.
What is the relationship between choice and happiness then? Simply: If the difference in value between one choice and another is greater than the time we spend to discover it, choices increase happiness. If it is less, then it decreases happiness."
I am willing to put up with the oppressive options—15 filters, 30 effects, 30 waveforms—offered in the software instruments world that I don’t like, because I’ve decided that I love the advantages it brings even more. And so it is desirable to me still. There is value there for me.
Important to note though. Many, or maybe all, of Ableton Live’s instruments are not born of the same thoughtless design of its peers, offering infinite options. Their instruments, including the 3 new synths in 9.5, have few parameters and the same simple, clean UI, absent of any skeuomorphism. I look forward to really learning their instruments before I decide I need to use 3rd party instruments, which usually do assault you with unlimited options. And a hideous UI. Wondrously, with Push 2, it doesn’t matter how poorly designed the UI is as you can just submerge yourself in the Push’s gorgeous screen and its gorgeous typography.
That is the wisest path. There are brands I have great affection for, but I have no brand loyalty. It’s not a feeling to be wasted on products; I reserve it for people, good people.[/quote]
I never really thought deeply about it. Only knew when something was fun or a drag. But you make a lot of sense. Guess basically it comes down to treating stuff inside a Daw as you would treat hardware. Just find the synths/fx that work best for different things and learn them inside out and then reach for the right instrument for the job. I think problems come when you have a hundred soft synths and a million samples and you have no real relationship with them and just endlessly scroll through sounds. It’s also healthy to freeze tracks wherever possible when you’re happy with a sound/performance and allow your brain to move on. Often treating daw tracks like tracks on a tape recorder can really help keep focus on the overall song rather than insane fine details that no one else is ever going to notice anyway…
Another beta release from Abes just now with bugfixes, additions to live, implemented user feature requests, and updates and fixes for Push. Really love how quickly they are moving with things.
Really excited to pick up push 2 asap and see how things go. Don’t suppose they added resample in the update? One of the things I’d love to see added to the hardware functions…
Yes, I can see this. All about finding value. I am doing this as well. I am trying to maximize value, maximize time, etc. I see it like this - I have limited funds, time, and space. What tools will provide max value?
My limited funds mean opening myself up to unlimited options of software. Ha! Just have to be selective I guess. I need to work on clearing out my library of presets and samples, for sure. De-clutter!
I’m using 3 Syntht’s now - A4 - AK + Dominion 1 and I never had such fun, never maid better music - AND NO COMPUTER hahaaa 
How come that by being limited I create much deeper stuff - with more original sounds and fun ?
I’m being 10x as productive than when I used the computer.
And I use instruments that have personnality - and ones I know them > >> I know them ! They become part of my Ego - this never happened to me with computers. 
And that sound !!!
There’s no temptation in Pusch 2 whatsoever for me. And I don’t care about a million possebilities, I need limited instrument that I can grasp - make my own - incorporate, fall in love with … put my styckers on
Bumping this, as I’ve now had a few weeks with Push 2 to compare. On the whole, as much as I love Elektron gear, Push 2 and Live has quickly taken over as the hub of my studio, and that’s putting my current Elektrons at risk of the chopping block.
Maybe it’s because Ableton Live is where I first really got my hands dirty with electronic music, but I’ve really found that pretty much everything that pushed me away from Live and towards Elektron is sorted now thanks to Push 2. There’s a few things that I prefer with my Elektron gear over Push 2-I find it kind of maddening to scroll through the melodic sequencer to find notes for step automation/adjustment (particularly lower velocity notes that don’t shine brightly) instead of the simplicity of 16 trigs at the ready, and so far I find the Octatrack to be better as a weird sound mangler. But…the things that drive me nuts about working with Elektron gear (64 step limitation being the biggest) are not an issue, and I’m finding it infinitely easier to get from inception to arrangement instead of faffing around with workarounds. It’s a bitter pill to swallow, but the end goal for me really needs to be completing songs, and that’s something I’ve always found easier in a DAW.
To be honest, I’m not really using a lot of VSTs or Live’s own instruments, but thanks to M4L I’m discovering all sorts of templates for my existing hardware and controlling it through Push 2. I already thought it was wicked to be able to p-lock my Bass Station 2 from the OT, but having every single parameter available for step automation in a M4L patch is really a step above. I’ve had an E-mu Turbo Phatt with the Composer ROM sitting in my rack for probably 6 months and was about to sell it, but last night discovered that the M4L panel for the Mo’Phatt works for it, and I already have the Prodatum editor there for deeper editing. Now I’m far more inclined to dive into this synth than I ever would have been when trying to use it sans computer. Even the synths that don’t have editors are able to get new life thanks to the new filters in Live 9.5 (which blow away all of the filters in my pre-Analog Elektron gear, I’m sorry) and all of the midi and effect options available in software.
So, where does this leave me? I’m not sure. Parting with my current crop of Elektrons feels like I’m breaking up with someone I still like but maybe has different goals than I do, and unlike a lot of folks I really don’t have any complaints or dissatisfaction with their gear. At the same time, owning the Octatrack, Monomachine, and MDUW, all could more or less be replaced or even bettered to a pretty reasonable degree of satisfaction in software. I’m thinking my first goal will be to explore the M4L patches out there (I know there’s ones for the OT and MD…any suggestions, and any patches for the MNM?) and see if they can find new purpose in this setup, and in general I may try to use them differently than I had in the past, maybe using the Mono in poly mode etc.
At the same time, computers are commercial devices and prone to failures and obsolescence at a rate that seems much higher than purpose-driven musical equipment. Case in point: tomorrow I’m taking my mid/late 2012 MBP to the Genius Bar to install a new battery, as mine has swollen over just a few years. Furthermore, I’m going to see if they can update my OS to Mavericks or Yosemite, as I’ve stayed on Mountain Lion for years to ensure my setup would remain working with my hardware and software-and now am unable to use a lot of newer software that won’t work on anything prior to Mavericks. None of this is an issue with my hardware that keeps trucking along.
Maybe this is all just silly and I’m feeling conflicted over something pretty inconsequential, but it’s definitely causing me some first world grief. Maybe I’d keep the Mono simply because it’s incredibly fast for me to program and is a good all-rounder for a computerless setup, but pretty much everything else with a sequencer (OT, MDUW, MPC 1000) feels quite redundant now, and I can’t help but think that maybe the money those would get me would be better used on a new computer, Analog Four/Keys, and starting a modular. Am I nuts?
I hope you’re not nuts, because that would mean I am too. I agree with pretty much everything you just said.
In fact, after having Push 2 and Live 9.5 for a few days I placed my A4 and AR on ebay. They’re gone as of yesterday. The screen on Push 2 plus the filter models in 9.5 were the last missing bits for me.
I think they’re fine machines, especially for people who don’t like using computers for music, or who want to play live with hardware only, etc. But for me, being already very comfortable with using Live, external sequencers seemed unnecessary, to the point where the A4 and AR seemed like expensive sound modules that I could not justify keeping.
I also never really gelled with the file management system on Elektrons. I’m sorry, maybe I’m just an idiot, but I like to pull up one single song file and have everything ready to go. For me, Push 2 is like an Elektron machine with several synths and drum machines and samplers inside, but one song file, and one giant sequencer, and one “save” button and one “open file” button, etc…
But, it’s not just Elektron machines I’m getting rid of. This is part of an overall downsizing for me. I’ve sold a lot of gear this past year. Eventually I’ll be rid of all racks and stands. I’ll have one stand-up desk with a Push 2, MS20 + SQ-1, Korg Volca Sample routed through a Sherman Restyler. Maybe a Nord Lead A1 desktop, and a master MIDI keyboard.
I guess I could go on, but I’d only start echoing what you’ve already written so well. I guess I’ll probably stop posting here as I don’t want to be a Push/Ableton evangelist or come across as anti-Elektron. Good luck to you!
That’s interesting, I’ve been a Live user for 10 years give or take, and there’s no way I’d dream of selling my AR and A4. Both bring a unique sound to the table that I just can’t get in software.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my soft synths and samplers, but I’d feel like I was missing some important colours if I didn’t have some analogue and outboard gear to hand.
I’m actually even strongly considering getting a “vintage” sampler along the lines of an s950 or (if I win the lottery/rob a bank) SP1200 … am I nuts?
Interesting - I am also questioning a lot of this in my setup (I don’t have an aversion to DAW’s/computers). BUT: what are these M4L panels you speak of? Are these within Ableton’s umbrella of content, or 3rd- party? Sounds like something I would like to try to play with over the holidays!
Have a look here, they have third party max editors for loads of different gear, as well as lots of other interesting stuff:
http://www.maxforlive.com/library/index.php
I paid for my Blofeld max editor, but got the rest on that site.
Wow, thanks! Been on that page before but never noticed “hardware control” 
I think we’re of similar minds, just prefer using different gear. I love Ableton and my vsts like Diva, Microtonic, OBXD, Dexed, TAL Sampler, etc. But I also want to keep a few simple bits of hardware for color, hands-on knob-per-function factor, variety, whatever. For me, I just find I can part with my Elektrons before I part with other bits like MS20, Sherman filter, Juno 106, etc.
I also want to get something to color samples, in hardware form. Cheap though! Rytm is great for this obviously, but too $$$ for me to justify hanging on to. I was thinking Volca Sample, but I am also looking at an old Akai, maybe S950? Or an Emu or something? Gotta say I like the simplicity and portability of the Volca Sample though. Good for couch jams. Rack samplers? Not so much. But… maybe TAL Sampler is enough for me.
Edit - Nevermind. I won’t be getting any old Akai samplers. Just checked ebay prices. Holy moly. I thought these were going for 100-200 bucks a few years ago. Seemed like people were practically giving them away. Now I see S950s and S1000s priced at well… $950 and $1000. Ha. TAL Sampler plus Volca Sample it is, for me!
Some great stuff in there. One of the best things I ever used from there was the Nord Lead 2x editor. Was like OverBridge before OverBridge. Wish they made one for the Nord Lead A1.
Yup. That’s where I found the aforementioned panels. I just wish Live didn’t filter out sysex messages, although there’s some funky workaround for the Alpha Juno and a few TX81Z M4L panels I think, so there must be some way to do it.
i put together a drum rack with max4live patches to help control elements of the rytm with push. the drum rack component allows you to sequence with push/ableton. i posted it on here a while ago.
here’s the link again. hope you find it useful.
and also a version for those not using overbridge or multiple outs.
No you aren’t.
A cheap s950 will serve you well, but have you also considered s770, s612, mirage, asr10r, or an emax?
What will you use the sampler for? If just as a color box then you’ve got a lot of options…
For cheap color boxes, think Mirage, EPS16+, s612. All of these will give you what you want for $150-$250.
The Push 2 is really cool. Still learning it though.
One thing I really prefer with Elektron over Ableton is the A4’s note designation into the sequencer. Just pushing a sequencer button and then tap the key on the keyboard to select it. Is there any way to do this on the Push, even using a midi keyboard to select the notes/chords?
You can step sequence melodic notes with Push 2. See 28.6 in the L9 manual for more detail, but in a nutshell, you are essentially entering notes in the currently selected scale directly in each step.