Program change messages not handled as expected

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#13

Problem is still here and feels like a bug, because:
Even if you put your rytm to PTN direct Jump Mode, it won’t change pattern immediately if you send a program change from an external source. It will if you change the pattern on the machine itself immediatelly, but not if you do it from an external source.

I think this whole PTN direct Jumb, PTN Change problem is a bit bigger then expected. Even my MPC on its own handels it veeery strange (you could say wrong), if the pattern on the mpc you want to jump between have different lengths…

Hopefully one day somebody will make the maths… can’t be that hard, can it??? :wink:
Still LOVE YOU Elektron!

#14

Please elektron find us a solution, it is an essential function for some for the live …

#15

+1 this needs to happen!

#16

You can buy a Sequentix Cirklon which has a setting specially to send program changes early to Elektron machines so they change when expected.

#17

If Sequentix figured it out, I wish Ableton could do something similar then!

After reading all these various threads on pattern changing issues, not to mention OB, sync, latency, etc. I’m about ready to give up and play acoustic guitar, or maybe even something more simple, like tambourine. :cry:

Would love to be able to compose/jam drum parts on Rytm, use p-locks, etc. and then arrange a larger song in Ableton, tying together my Rytm, other hardware gear, and virtual instruments. Horizontally along the Arrangement view I wish to have a track of MIDI clips that send messages to my Rytm to change Patterns accordingly with various parts of the song (intro = A1, chorus 1 = A2, etc.). But doesn’t seem to be able to do things in sync. Rytm always goes wonky.

The Rytm has been around for years now, Ableton seems to be Elektron’s preferred DAW to support, at least with OverBridge. So, why is this still such a hassle/impossibility? Am I missing something? Maybe it’s just not a very popular workflow? Am I the only one still trying to make this work? Anybody else?

#18

With Live you could try to set up a separate midi track for program changes and pre delay it. It’s always tricky syncing a computer though, since they’re not dedicated hardware.

3 Likes
Sending Program/Pattern Change Messages from Ableton to Rytm
#19

This is exactly what I do, -60 ms delay for the dedicated program change track in Live does the trick!

#20

[quote=“Olle, post:4, topic:6560”]
This is the reason and your suggestion is what have been discussed as a fix. But what I’m saying is that this is not a quick fix and with it comes some conceptual questions. The developers are aware of it but there is no time schedule.[/quote]

Multimap exists in other Elektron boxes, which allows you to trigger patterns from MIDI notes… Come on Elektron!!!

#21

I have it set up in Live so it works as has been discussed in various threads already. Set the launch quanitsation of the clip with the program change to None, and set the CHNG parameter in the AR to 16 and set it to Direct Jump.When I launch the Live clip with the PC, the jump happens on the next beat, which is as “immediate” as i need it to be… otherwise your’re entering syncopation territory which will be impossible to achieve unless we get pattern changes with MIDI notes instead of PC. . . Where is Multimap ?

1 Like
#22

i am having this same problem, only, no DAW, the same sync issue occurs just using the Octatrack as a midi master! if the AR has an advanced pattern length longer than the OT pattern, then the program change is queued and waits for the amount of steps specified by the CHNG param. so frustrating!

#23

any good news on this issue?

#24

Bump! Would love to see my boxes responding to program change instantaneously in Direct Jump mode. It’s such a terribly annoying thing… makes my live twice as complicated in terms of sequencing

2 Likes
#25

bump again for solutions. @Olle, devs, any chance of an optional “immediate prog chg” setting now that overbridge is out?

1 Like
#26

No. Because.

#27

I can understand why this is not possible to send changes instantly because it needs to be cued up and all,
But the changing late when sending program changes at the correct time (early) before end of pattern From the Octatrack, doesn’t work when in advanced mode inf, Chang 64 it changes late. this wouldn’t be the same problem would it? Not getting any answers about this?

#28

Sorry, that’s just not true !

A4/AK can change patterns instantly with multimap at the press of key or at the reception of a midi note…

MD and MnM can do this too if I remenber correctly…Any other machine in the world does this…

After a long exchange, following a support ticket, where I have been explained what was a midi cable.
I finally got taken seriously.
Then my interlocutor changed. We stopped talking about latency, and midi limitations and then came the magic words : politics, design choices, product lines etc…Which means : because.
You can find extracts of my ticket here and on muff wiggler…

If I read through the lines, I’m pretty sure they did this so that you never get clock/sync drifts when changing patterns with pchanges because the implementation wasn’t so good.

What can back this point is that you can make perfectly timed instant pchange using a midi processor.
Send a pchange from any device to a midi processor.
Midi processor store pchange, send a stop message to any of your elektron box, send pchange, and send start message.
Problem solved, no drift, no sync issue and more messages,processing and time used than a simple pchange…

They could have left the user to decide if latency/drift was acceptable or not but they would have get requests and support tickets to improve this behaviour with tons of threads…Easier to blame midi specs imho.

1 Like
#29

Yep. :wink: You can use any midi message. The best being notes for Octatrack.
Instant program change OT pattern - possible?

1 Like
#30

i agree with what you are saying about instant pc ,
but im talking about a separate issue,
when you send a pc from the octatrack to the analog rytm cued up early before end of the pattern to do a pattern change as its designed to do,
if the rytm is in advanced mode,and your pattern length is set to 128, 256 or INF or anything other than the exact CHNG length the CHNG setting doesnt work properly, the pattern changes late!
seems to a bug or something with the CHNG setting when receiving PC…
ive looked further and CHNG didnt work at all in previous OS

#31

I understand what you mean. Unfortunately the current workaround is using a midi processor.

#32

im honestly pretty surprised one of the main elements of the elektron sequencer doesnt work when linked to other elektron gear, they can work stand alone correctly but cant change patterns chained together using all the cool polyrhythm stuff properly…

funny thing is, it does work when you change patterns via overbridge channel 16