Pioneer Toraiz SP-16


#266

Not in the 1.4 update for sure and with the time they take to make an update I would not see those bring on the table before March-April at least :confused:

Does the DJS1000 still have all the same effects as the SP-16?

Yes exact same + the performance FX in addition :confused:


#267

Yeah, I just read through the manual a bit. I guess the performance effects are kind of like the master effect on the SP-16. There’s no master effect on the DJS-1000, but you can basically get the same result by routing the performance effects to whatever tracks you wanted to. One negative about the DJS-1000 (besides no awesome Prophet filters) is there’s no compressor effect in the performance effects, so there’s no way to apply compressor to the master if you wanted to.


#268

Yes… I asked on Pioneer Forum for a proper master Effect chain (EQ4 or EQ8 + Compressor + Limiter)
And at least an EQ by tracks + FX1

That’s really the minimum I would like on this SP-16 :stuck_out_tongue:
I do not think I ask too much regarding this selling price


#269

What is also NOT in the update … is the reverb can only be a master effect, no insert effect. Jeeez. Thats so… Why…


#270

I think internally it’s not powerful enough to bring on the table what they think they could bring…
Also I do think they make a very poor study on a marketing side regarding this product and producer needs nowadays


#271

Try Ni Maschine out, i enjoy it so much :lion:


#272

A question for Toriaz users, I’m thinking of getting an SP-16 again. Without OT type scaling, is there a workaround for the 4 bar pattern length limit?

If you trigger a sample that runs longer than 4 bars and then change patterns so there it isn’t triggered again, will it continue to play through?

Adding silence to sections of samples and then changing sample start or slice by LFO?

How are people getting round this?

Thanks


#273

@henryo i will pass you here tricks from facebook toraiz group, maybe you can try :

(from Eugene Mankovski - LFO Trick)
I think I have found a way to play 8 bar loops on SP-16 sequencer. Many people could already know that, but I will just post for those who dont.
Step 1. Record or load 8 bar loop into the pad. 1.4 firmware now has 8 bar limit recording which makes recordings easier.
Step 2. Put a trigger on 1st step. After this it will only play 4 bars as this step will be re-triggering the loop all the time.
Step 3. Assign LFO to the track with the following settings:
Destination: Start
Shape: Saw
Settings -> Mode: Free
Sync: On
Speed: 128
Depth: -32 (+32 works sometimes as well but -32 seems to be better)
Phase Offset: 50
Now it plays 8 bars!
Elektron equipment owners use this trick a lot and it seems to be working on Toraiz as well.

This method could allow playing even longer loops, if Pioneer did not limit LFO to 128. I.e. if we had 256 and 512 for LFO speed we could play 16 and 32 bars. I hope someone from Pioneer DJ is reading this group and they will add longer LFOs. But radical solution would be just to add trigger conditions as new parameter for trigger. Currently there are re-trigger count and speed, which are probably not that often used outside of drum machine scope… But adding a condition parameter with values 1/2 (first of 2 pattern runs), 2/2 (second of 2 pattern runs), 1/3 (first of 3 pattern runs) e.t.c., would just solve everything and this hack with LFO wound not be required.

(from David Gibson - Arranger Trick)
I’ve been doing it by following it with a duplicate of the pattern without the same trig in arrangement mode. I record it without a limit set and use the sequence to estimate the end.


#274

Thanks William, just what I was thinking. Great that people have found a way around the 4 bar limit.

Trig conditions or just more bars would be great, though.


#275

Has anyone tried these out?

Can anyone confirm that, for example, a 16 bar sample will play through if you follow a 1 bar pattern with a duplicate pattern without the same trigger?

Thanks


#276

because i don’t have the Toraiz at this point i wait for a strong firmware update and maybe then i will get it again.

I think the more simple is you connect to the Toraiz facebook group and you ask directly to Eugene Mankovski.


#277

Anyone using SP-16 and OT together?


#278

Yes and it’s pretty good. I use trig conditions on a few pieces of gear thru midi, then sp16 with samples on the pads, and midi to as1 which I really like playing with the pads. All going to Allen & Heath mixer and stereo out to compressor and preamp then Duet into auria. I’m keen on just recording live for extended takes then chopping up. Some experiments on SoundCloud/lost_angles.

Anyway as much as I am disappointed with how the sp16 falls short of being a classic, I do admit the ease of use and hands on of sp16 complements the OT which, as a learner, I use quite differently.

At the same time I see the limitations of sp16 and the massive possibilities of OT.


#279


#280

Thanks Francis.

Looks like a nice setup.

I can’t afford both machines and OT is a bit overkill for what I need, which is some way of dropping occasional long samples in every 16 bars or so - which would be easy if the SP had more bars, scaling or conditional trigs. Seems silly to spend so much on an OT just for this.

Anyone think of any other options for this?

With the SP can I load a 30 second sample on pad 1 which is triggered on pattern 1, then switch to pattern 2 or 3 and the sample will play out right the way through?

And can I set that same sample to loop and it will play indefinitely in the background while I change to other patterns to build up some interesting textures?

Thanks


#281

I think it’s Depend from people needs… and what you do most (Studio, Live… Music genre…) One or the other can gives you more Pros than Cons in that regards … For instance i have a special thing i do mostly is one or two long stems with random things happen inside it and i generated those each time before to play. And i can only do that on the OT because of the CF Stream. I should probably make it now with TRC without to generate each time (but the results are not very the same i get - for now - with the Ableton Live Beat Repeat)

The Toraiz is nice especially (for me) sound quality wise and Pads. Deal Breaker encountered : No possibility to mix and effect tracks non destructively. No master effect chain. No Live sampling.

The OT is nice especially for all the other things. The effects works great in the over-modulating context. The filter are great. P-lock, Sound Lock as its best … (On Toraiz Step Modulation is kind of joke as destinations are very limited.) I don’t see Deal Breaker on the OT, Pros and Cons but No Deal Breaker.

  • For Time Strech there’s nothing in hardware Better or Equal to software. For me, you need C and F# in each octave to get good results.

  • A polyphonic module controlled by MIDI on OT, and TORAIZ is better for CHORDS in real time or you need to generate those CHORDS each time and play as sample.


#282

It’s only overkill until I master OT! Sp16 I have little to learn after 3 months - this is the double edge sword of sp16.


#283

Can SP do these things @Francis? If it can I don’t need an Elektron box. Thanks


#284

Eugene has a workaround on the Facebook page which would allow this. Something with LFO, I’m traveling so can’t try until next week but could be what you are after.


#285

Just got a sp-16. I am an Elektron fanboy still I am very impressed by the screen quality, also surprised by the good integration of the touchscreen, delighted by the fluid workflow, and pleased by the overall sound quality and the analog filter.
Really lacks Fx power for the price :sob: but fortunately there are separate outputs…