Just realised what a big part of the problem is.
Elektron style P-locking won’t work on a polyphonic source unless it’s been specifically written to store all synth settings per voice. Otherwise you’re basically just sending global CCs to a VST which will affect all voice.
Can you guys explain once more. What is push exactly p-locking that leads to different results from elektron’s sequencers?
Sorry its late here in france I’ m diminished 
Push defaults to p-locks for the length of the note, where elektron’s p-locks last until the next trigger. You can make push work the same way, but it’s not as fast or intuitive, and it won’t work polyphonically.
Oh yeah i got it now thanks.
this would be a relatively trivial task in M4L, if you dont mind a limitation of either
a) having to go to the computer to MAP the parameter(s) you wish to automate
OR
b) map in your vst/synth a control to a CC.
the reason is, you can’t in M4L dynamically select a devices parameters and display them on the Push2.
(M4L Push support only allows numerical values, and text from a fixed list on its ‘live controls’ - I’ve tried before when I wanted to get track names into a M4L device.)
if there is a demand for this, perhaps raise a request with ableton for envelope choice on automation steps and/or contact isotonikstudios.com … im sure with a controller script, they could create something very similar to an Elektron workflow
You’re right. But there’s also the fact the difference in mono/poly between Elektron and Ableton Push/Live.
How about if we’re just talking Drum Racks in Ableton/Push? Each hit could be mono, right? Theoretically Ableton could at least make a more Elektron-like p-locking system for Drum Racks, correct? I guess it wouldn’t be possible for synths in the Ableton/Push melodic step sequencer.
A drum rack is per definition polyphonic, but the individual chains might be monophonic. I’m not sure how the internals work or why.
Elektron’s parameter locks are awesome. They’re the reason I started using their instruments. And they’re the reason I keep using them. Push/Live is another beast. With it’s own strengths. Let’s make music.
I’m probably being stupid and missing something obvious, but AK handles p-locks on polyphonic chords etc?
Drum rack sequencing within Push sounds like a good comparison to the elektron sequencer.
On each chain, add midi effects to generate chords and other note parameters, add audio insert effects and you’ve got something that get close to an Octatrack ^2 !
What about having a third party tool, an envelope generator or something to achieve the per-note p-lock.
You just step automate this device in push instead of directly automating the wanted parameter. The device is then mapped to control your wanted parameter, but with much more flexibility.
Kind of a bridge device…
EDIT @Cocker also suggested to try an m4l Lfo device that has some sort of a release parameter. It seems it can be mapped to anything.
https://www.elektronauts.com/uploads/default/original/3X/4/1/412abcd74af2ae5728a2b4bd2220ff4af39ccc4f.png
Of course. You’re right.
I read the OP’s initial post as the problem was for example that the filter (if locked) would affect all notes on the track. This really isn’t an issue since all Elektrons are fundamentally monophonic per track. Or rather - you’d get around it if you’d create monophonic tracks in Live/Push.
Some of you are talking about automation but plocking is more modulation then automation.
Do we all agree that ableton should make this more elektron style because its faster to work with?
I’m sure there is a way to fake the elektron sequencer with Push + utilities all by ourselves. we just have to find it!
Yes but it’s definitely still automation.
FWIW the as far as I can remember the Maschine did P-locks almost exactly the same was as elektron.
Yes!
I think they could at least make Drum Racks do this.
And yes, I think it’s a confusing issue. Seems like in all these discussions there is some confusion between Live’s automation and p-locking vs Elektron’s p-locking.
EDIT - I think I am just restating the obvious and figuring this out for myself by writing it out. Ignore or skip if the following is not helpful.
The way I understand it, Live’s p-locking is simply very basic per-step automation, done via Push. For instance, let’s say you have a Drum Rack. You’ve got a kick, some hats, a snare, and a sample of chord stab. Along with the drum hits, you place a three hits of the chord stab sample. Over the three hits of the chord sample you want the filter to open up a bit more on each hit. So, you p-lock the first one, second hit you open the filter a bit more, third hit you open the filter even more.
So, in Ableton, the filter p-lock will abruptly end after that individual hit. You can go into the software’s Envelope section (at the bottom of page - Clip/Notes/Envelopes) and see the automation envelope very narrowly changes per-step, then abruptly ends. It sounds unexpected, curtailing the filter changes sharply directly after each step.
If you did the same thing on the Rytm, the three notes would just progressively open up the filter a bit more, sounding the way you’d imagine. No surprises.
Side note: I wish I was in front of my Push right now to confirm, but I also can’t ever seem to find how to p-lock a Drum Rack fx send. Not the main DAW Track Sends, but the fx you drop into a Drum Rack’s Return area. Obviously, you can do this in Envelopes area, but can’t seem to find how to do it via Push. (I love doing this in the Rytm. So simple and quick to add a bit of fx to individual hits.)
Whatever Ableton can do to move their p-lock behavior towards Elektron’s would be welcome, by me at least. Even if it’s just an alternate mode via checkbox in Preferences, a user-created max4live hack, or whatever. I wish I was clever
enough to make one myself!
Serious? Maschine does this? Wow
Yeah. It’s a very similar system.
Not exactly the same but very similar. In Maschine it was called step automation
I don’t have a Maschine anymore unfortunately but here is a guy p-locking stuff on top of his sequence
Note that he has Maschine in STEP mode and he is locking parameters to the steps of the sequence
Benedikt
Benedikt (Ableton AG)
Dec 6, 16:34 CET
Hi,
thanks for getting in touch with Ableton Support.
I really agree, the Elektron’s way this feature is handled is a very nice one.
I will forward this to our internal wishlist, but please bear in mind that we do receive a lot of feature requests and therefore can not make any statements if or when features can be implemented.
I hope you understand this.
But thank you very much for sharing your thought with us. Much appreciated!
Please don’t hesitate to get in touch with any further questions or concerns.
All the best from Berlin,
Benedikt
Technical Support Agent
I suspect the p-lock concept might make more ‘sense’ if/when we get per note expression support. The concept then can handle polyphony.
