Overhub plus alternative MTT USB hubs

Elektron Gear Other Elektron Gear
#102

But if the machines used USB 3 to begin with, wouldn’t that give them the ability to record all the audio tracks along with effect tracks over USB 3 @ 24 bit given the improved bandwidth? Or is there another imposed limitation for why that’s not possible given the current format?[/quote]
The machines would have had more than enough bandwidth if the USB2 chips onboard had not introduced unacceptable audio noise at USB2 speed (480Mbps) into the analog circuits, teh next slowest standard is USB1.1 full speed ie 12Mbps which is also a usb2 standard - that’s why we have the bandwidth limitations (but analog circuits free from USB induced noise)
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usb3 would have solved NOTHING and would have excluded too many users - this is not an Elektron issue - this is by the sounds of it an issue with certain machines and certain hubs - I have a cheap and cheerful GL3520 4 port hub which works perfectly fine in my usb3 port on my mavericks mac

edit: replied from page 5 to find @t had said same !

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#103

avantronica seems to be pretty solid and knowlegable in a wide field of technology questions… nice to have these people around here in the forum…
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so:
elektron giving us a USB3 hub, that will not benefit for the OB bandwidth issues right now …
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that is like having a usb interface on the rytm and forcing us to use sysex (instead of the charming OT usb interface option).
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what the heck… still elektron boxes are I M H O FOR ME the nicest dopest awesomest shit around … funny elektron people and their weird ideas!

#104

Does anyone know if this induced noise is the kind of thing that could of been avoided by making the analogue and digital boards separate?
I think a few manufactures do this for pretty much that exact reason?

Or maybe they are already separate and this is an issue regardless?

I’ve never seen inside an Elektron box before… anyone opened theirs and care to share pics while we’re on the subject?

#105

Like pretty much anything, designing, building, and selling this kind of gear is a balancing act.

Given unlimited time and unlimited resources they could probably have made full-speed USB 2 work without introducing too much digital noise, but that’s just not how the world works. :wink:

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#106

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so:
elektron giving us a USB3 hub, that will not benefit for the OB bandwidth issues right now …
.
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that is like having a usb interface on the rytm and forcing us to use sysex (instead of the charming OT usb interface option).
.
.
what the heck… still elektron boxes are I M H O FOR ME the nicest dopest awesomest shit around … funny elektron people and their weird ideas![/quote]
I’m not following the logic of the ‘conclusion’ here - the bottom line is that there is a workable/reasonable amount of bandwidth available at USB1 full speed (12) - there would have been an excess of bandwidth even at max channel 24 bit with the onboard (480) hardware - no need for the (5k) usb3 chip in A4KR - especially when it would exclude many users
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so - OverHub - it only (in terms of Elektron’s users) needs to channel a few channels of USB at 12Mbps, they could have produced a USB2 hub and for the most part everyone would have been catered for comfortably (except those with usb3 drives and exotic hardware) - the fact that it is more future proof and delivers more bandwidth than we realistically need is a bonus, the chips may even be easier to procure than usb2 ones, who knows - but I don’t see how this seems like a fail in any regard - there seems to be quite a few discussing clearcut issues whereby the hub is not playing ball at USB3 speeds - but works when running at USB2 ! - this sounds more like a compatibility issue with certain pcs or OSs ?- who knows, but a hub should just be a hub ! unless there’s a fundamental issue with the hub I don’t see where Elektron went wrong in the above assessment - the chances are that the £6 hub I bought with the same Chipset would also fail on these machines - it’s important to keep in mind that the USB bandwidth requirements are very light, it’s just that we want to max it out within that small slice - the MTT aspect isn’t there to speed things up, it’s ironically there to ensure that all things run smoothly when you drop slow things on the hub (including OB)
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btw Trabant, I’m no expert on this stuff , mostly it’s just logic post-googling (and remembering things the Elektron boys have said), which I did to get a working hub before overhub came out and that was based on the Chipset advice of another member- fortuitously they also recommended the GL3520 usb3 MTT chipset, so searching for the chip type on amazon was all I needed to do

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#107

there’s a very detailed teardown of an A4 on Flickr - I guess there must be ways to improve the separation

#108

Could this list be the scope of the problem? Anybody owning one of these Macs able to use Overhub with multiple devices at max channelcount? It’s a long shot but its from a diff problem with USB 2.0/USB 3.0 backward-compatibility.

MacBook Pro
MacBookPro 10, 1: 15″
MacBookPro 10.2: 13″
MacBookPro 9.1: 15″
MacBookPro 9.2: 13″
MacBookAir
MacBookAir 5.1: 11″
MacBookAir 5.2: 13″
iMac
iMac13.2: 27″
iMac13.1: 21.5″
iMac13.3: 21.5″
Mac Mini
MacMini6.1

#109

I can say it’s not a Mac only problem since I’m on PC and having the same issue.

#110

Might be the same hardware, Mac uses standard components.

#111

So finally did some tests and recordings with AR and A4 pluged directly into 2 USB ports on the rear of my iMac 2014 OS Yosemite. Everything runs smoothly, no drop outs, everything is fine! Tested with OB 1.0 in Ableton 9 64bit.

So if you have an iMac (or maybe Mac Pro or PC) … my suggestion would be: free your usb ports from printer, iLoks, external hd or what ever needs an USB port, plug your Elektron gear directly into your iMac (PC ) and run all other USB gear via USB hub. I have my printer, iLok, Arturia dongle, usb cable for camera runing via non powered 10 EUR usb hub, pluged into USB of my keyboard, which is pluged into the 3. USB port on the rear. The 4. usb is used by Motu soundcard. For me, that works. No need for an Overhub … at least in my case.

ps: not tested yet: AR + A4 overbridge + input from Motu soundcard.

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#112

From Elektron Support:

We know a bit more about this issue now.
Seems that some chipsets aren’t compatible with the USB 3 chipset in the hub, and will have to use a 2.0 connection via standard micro USB 2 cable connected to one of the halves in the port of the hub.

This won’t impair Overbridge performance since our units are not USB 3 devices.

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#113

A bit disappointed that for the price Elektron charges, it does not come with a power supply despite being able to be powered :thinking:

#114

Have Imac Mid-2011 USB 2.0
Brings the Overhub difference
I would notice an improvement
Has anyone already tried ?

Thanks for Info

#115

Wondered how you went with your Overhub with your Virus?
I just posted this on the Virus forum in an existing thread.
"I just got an Elektron Overhub because i’m running a few things off my MacBook Pro 2.3Ghz 15 Retina i7 (11,3).

Sad to report that having nothing plugged in to any USB ports, except for the Overhub and Virus TI2 Polar into the Overhub doesn’t work. It states ‘MIDI driver failed - The MIDI driver failed to start or is not installed. This can happen if you have connected too many USB devices. Also try to install the Virus TI Software again.’

I tried this both with the included Elektron USB3 cable and a USB2 mini cable to see if that made any difference, it didn’t. As well as obviously doing the full reboot of the Virus, DAW and computer in between to be absolutely certain.

However the Overhub works great with an Apogee Duet 2, MOTU XT, ilok, Analog 4 and Minitaur all plugged in together. And then having the Virus in the second dedicate port of the MBP.

Really love the Virus TI but it’s still going to be that titchy moody synth with this stuff"

Did you manage to get anywhere with it? :smiley:

#116

hey guys, im sorry if this has been mentioned already but I just got Overhub, and I’ve connected my Akai MPK261 to it, but my computer does not recognize that it is connected. Neither Ableton, nor Reason is recognizing it. The controller works fine when plugged into a USB port on my macbook, so I know it is the Overhub that is causing trouble. The weird thing is, it seems to be recognizing my other peripherals fine including Push 2, mouse/keyboard, and Analog Rytm. Is anyone else having this problem? I’m sure this is somehow related to the other issues everyone is having. This is a huge disappointment! :frowning:

#117

usb 3 or usb2 hub ? … try usb2 please… also reboot lots

#118

I know this thread is a bit old now but have the problems been sorted? I see it now comes with a USB2 and a USB3 cable included.
I’ve just ordered it so I suppose I’ll find out!

#119

I hadn’t used my Overdub with Overbridge before owing to el cap issues - MacBookPro11,3, boot rom version MBP112.0138.B16 - when I connected my A4 and Rytm this evening, the Rytm worked ok, but the A4 to all intents and purposes crapped out. Overbridge plugin connected fine and performed sysex type functions ok, but audio didn’t work at all.

Took me the guts of an hour, numerous uninstalls/reinstalls/much head scratching before I tried plugging it in to my other €10 hub, which ended up working fine - got 8 tracks of audio at 16 bit out of it, same as the Overhub.

Took me 'till now to read this thread and try using the usb2 cable provided - many thanks to avantronica for his contributions.

Still getting 8 and 8 for the two devices, not sure if that’s the best I can expect, but it’s also introduced pretty horrendous noise from my Blofeld, also connected to Overdub - which, granted, is prone to noise issues using midi over usb, I normally use a midi adaptor when tracking it, but never this bad before.

Anyway, the two devices seem to be working ok now on Overhub and I’ve switched the Blofeld to the other hub. I haven’t gotten a power supply for the Overhub as yet, guessing it’ll help some. Issues are still ongoing, though.

Far from ideal

#120

Surely standard off-the-shelf Macs can’t be incompatible?
Is this the case for Macs, or just some PC chipsets?

#121

Hi. I have some bad trouble getting the overhub to work here. Any suggestions?
I have tbe overhub connected to my imac 2014 with the usb2 cable. I have 3 overbridge devices. AK, AR A4.
If i connect one to the overhub, it works fine. If i connect two, one of the two wont work,
Seems like it crashes the overbridge control panel somehow. Sometimes i get silence only, sometimes I get some horrendous distortion that wont go away even unplugging the device.
Plugging one device in overhub and the other in computer directly, seem to work.
But having two devices in the overhub crashes but overbridge control panel and ableton and requires me to force reboot the mac. Im going mad here.