Overbridge troubles should be a lesson learned

Elektron Software Overbridge
#21

Oh … it’s not as funny as you might think, if we look to the facts … availability here only …

There are instruments out there from past ages, which can be played still today … church organs, harpsichords, pianos, flutes, violins … just to name a few. I own some gear from my youth, ready to go since decades and fine to play.

Now let’s look to virtual instruments, can we say the same?

Only as an example … I got a copy of Camel-Audio Alchemy, love this synth, have the original version. Beeing on PC and after the company was taken over by Apple means, no more updates, no more sound packages, which have been great. And this is not the only case like this. If one day my computer-hardware including OS or one of my VST-hosts are upgraded enough, Alchemy will be useless code. Same goes for many softwareproducts. The company goes out of business (see Cakewalk last December), developer ends to deliver software updates for whatever reason, new computer needs new OS, but now we have incompatibilities, you name it. And … does my Win 10 support my EMU soundcard, any longer? Unfortunately not. An unwanted doorstop career …

The best virtual gear renders useless until we have the money, time, and ressources to make an all-hardware-included and OS-conserving backup of our complete setup :wink: Do I want this every … let’s say two or three years? No.

But my old MS-20, bought in the 80-ies, just does as fine, as on it’s first days :wink: (knocking on wood)

I think there are some good reasons to consider advantages and disadvantages of real and virtual gear and their long term utilization planning.

#22

Oh man I’d sell that MS-20 while it’s still working, and buy the VST :joy:

1 Like
#23

I am sure that the Elektron staff had endless discussions about this and decided to introduce Overbridge as a main feature of their devices for a reason. Still, I don´t use it and would like to see the manpower that was put into developing Overbridge elsewhere. My wishlist would be a class compliant file transfer system which works with any standard computer file system. I would take Midi over USB as well but that´s it. If I want to edit my drums / synth sounds on a computer I use Ableton.

Another point is the product-lifecycle. Imagine the Monomachine had Overbridge. It would run on Windows XP and OSX Panther 10.3. I don´t want to keep a set of vintage computers in my studio just to have my editors working in 10, 20 or 30 years. The current situation shows that Elektron has more than their hands full coding Overbridge for the current machines, I doubt that their long-term support will enable as to use “old” Elektron machines with new computers in the future.

2 Likes
#24

Definitely very keen on class compliant functionality over OB DAW integration bells and whistles here. Not taking anything away from those who need OB for anything else (and recognising that streaming 8 tracks independent of the interface is an amazingly powerful thing), but I would like:

  • Class compliant USB MIDI (which we already have :smiley: )
  • Class Complaint USB Audio Streaming of the 8 tracks, plus master and input bus
  • Class compliant USB access to file system for backup-restore

In all honesty, any functionality that relies on ongoing manufacturer support is best regarded as temporary - you are always potentially one OS upgrade/new computer away from it not working any more.

John

1 Like
#25

I had the same experience with a Terratec Phase 88, 500€ Interface and they did not release a driver for Win7, so it ended as doorstopper.

Its maybe late to drop Overbridge development in this phase. Maybe if they could provide an Overbridge host recorder device, that would not have compatibility issues, that could also be a possible solution.

#26

Breakout cables are a thing. It’s not pretty but it works :wink: But I think it would change the cost (more DA converters and probably beefier CPU to drive them, not to mention more complex firmware).

Then there is the backup functionality

This… I can relate to. Xing fingers now… don’t want to lose my stuff.

1 Like
#27

I think these overbridge delays are less likely the result of just getting the digitakt to work, I think they’re trying to lay the ground work for all future boxes. When I asked why the octatrack mk2 didn’t have overbridge I was met with responses about how making 8 tracks stream over usb would be no simple task. The DT and DN are what we see now but elektron probably already have their future planned or at least some vision, they need to make sure this works now and they’re so deep in at this point they can’t release it and it’s shit or drop it and forget it. Remember this has to work across multiple platforms and be somewhat futureproof, for multiple boxes and multiple future boxes which may or may not have been conceived yet, all while hardware and technology is getting more and more complicated. There’s already an elektron eco system with gear but this is laying the ground work to go beyond that. When things are worked out streaming and controlling all these boxes and future boxes via computer will be great. It’s just questionable whether a company like elektron has the manpower to do it. The obvious answer is just adding ADAT but they want their own thing. If they put in this work and succeed then obviously it’s going to be just as complicated for another company to replicate it. Really everybody will forget about the wait within 2 months of release and go back to flipping gear. Personally I really want to see elektron to succeed with this. I’d rather have ADAT outs on everything right now but I’d rather have overbridge in its finished state overall. It’s a better future

3 Likes
#28

There is nothing future proof with USB 2.0 , its already history. No new computers are build with that kind of interface.

5 Likes
#29

Same here. Without Overbridge I wouldn’t have ANY Elektron device on my table.

I can understand and respect the FCK OVB guys but I guess it’s a neither wrong or right with this one. Like for many Overbridge was THE selling argument for a RYTM. To treat all 8 voices with vst effects in real time without needing a Soundcard or ADAT or mixer is just wonderful and it doesn’t broke my workflow.

Overbridge, at least for me, was stable from day one so I really can’t complain but of course I’m sorry for all tweakers which can’t get it to work.

2 Likes
#30

Surely they’re taking that into consideration, things like that are what I’m taking about (future boxes)

#31

Yep… already there… but there will be an aftermarket for USB2 interfaces to connect legacy USB2 devices for a while to come.

I don’t think anything is truly futureproof, but it’s good to have broadly supported options. Line outs are my favourite :smiley:

I Would like ADAT as others have commented, but quite a few modern digital desks and interfaces are starting to omit that too!

#32

No need to do this … my Kronos as a decent MS-20 emulation, checked them A/B, but having the real thing in the studio - and working - is much more fun, at least for me :wink:

#33
1 Like
#34

Except that USB is fully backwards compatible. A USB 3.2 port is also a USB 3.1 port is also a USB 3.0 port is also a USB 2.0 port is also a USB 1.1 port is also a USB 1.0 port.

4 Likes
#35

What i find to be a shame is the subject divided us exactly as DJ with Vinyl against CD/File… Analog vs Digital, ITB vs OTB, Hybrid is new but even Hybrid people who clearly know what they do by keeping smartly the best from both side regarding budget and needs don’t know really how to respond to that kind of debate.

it’s support and we forget honestly the essential. which is people with whom we share our thing, dance, buy our music + results for those who make live performance with their music or the music from other artists.

i have nothing more to say than this. I’m tired of this and really I’m a old who understand youngest. Even iPad musicians seems to become more accepted and reliable. I really think we must follow our century or the risk is to be frozen in place as a fossil…

The point of Art will never be the support (canvas, paper, cd or vinyl, drawing paper, photo paper…). The charm and the grain can be added if you want … the smell can be so to everyone to revolutionize with his ideas and convictions what we have today, like yesterday and tomorrow …

(what about graph on wall, art in street… damn it’s art ! period)

1 Like
#36

USB 2 is definitely not history, as has been stated by the USB steering group.

There is even a USB 2 version of the Type-C connector.

1 Like
#37

Dont use OVB and all my boxes are fine standalone. Dont see the issue.

Only time mines are hooked to pc is when transferring sounds n firmware etc…

I wish the Analog range just showed up like a disk drive(like OT) to make this easier mind.

1 Like
#38

One issue is, you can’t backup your projects, which in turn means that you can fill up the device and it becomes sort of useless. I’m not in this position, but some people are prolific and use a lot of samples. This combined with the relatively sparse disk space is a problem.

2 Likes
#39

Here is the problem. Overbridge seems to follow the closed ecosystem philosophy as pioneered by Apple. Everything works very nice if you use an Elektron box with OB as you only audio interface but if you’re trying to mix the OB audio stream with the audio stream from another audio interface on the same computer, you’re in for endless headaches over synchronisation and relying on DAWs made by other companies to play along with this. I don’t know about Windows but on the Mac trying to combine two audio interfaces bringing in audio never works out well. ( my two AIs are linked via optical ADAT so there is only one AI bringing in the audio to the Mac).

So it seems to me that Elektron are targetting small home studios that use Elektron gear almost exclusively, and that is a bad move for the rest of us and ultimately for Elektron, IMO. They will get bogged down trying to keep up with OS updates and Apple/ Microsoft messing things up… and eventually the OB users will just switch to software plug-ins which is the logical conclusion of making everything smaller and more streamlined.

7 Likes
#40

Yes you can back up the projects, just a sysex dump into c6 .