Not getting the sounds out of the MnM that I was hoping for

Elektron Gear Monomachine
#1

I got the MnM about 3 months ago and have been using it religiously on an almost daily basis. I feel like I have a great handle on the synthesis, and I’m getting much better with all the sequencing options available. I love how easy it is to control my other hardware and how it acts as the brain of my synths.

However, I’m starting to feel like the variety of useable sounds it can create is very limited. It sounds SUPER sharp and digital unless you do a lot of filtering, but then a lot of the sounds start to sound similar. Now I’ve used a lot of soft synths in the past, and I have a Virus C and MS2000BR, so I feel like I know my way around synthesis.

Maybe I’m missing something when it comes to programming sounds with the MnM specifically. I have no problem getting awesome thick warm sounds out of VSTs like Massive, or getting big sounds from the Virus, but with the MnM, I struggle to get anything beyond thin sounding synths most of the time.

So I guess my question is - How are you guys getting bigger sounding synths from the unit? Are you layering a few tracks at a time? Is there a particular machine you like more than others for making warmer sounds?

#2

You asked the same thing about the MD, so I’d say the same answer - practice.

Consider someone who picks up a guitar and 3 months later says that the guitar doesn’t sound enough like van halen and what are they missing?

Same thing - technique, signal chain, attitude, external support, money, etc.

Stick with it, and if you really want tips and tricks, there are plenty of threads out there about that very subject http://tarekith.com/assets/monomachine_tipsandtricks.htm

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#3

I’m no MnM expert, but I’ve had mine for a few months now…

I think it’s probably the wrong device to use for thick and warm sounds. I use mine almost exclusively for harsh, cold, gritty sounds that I have a harder time achieving with my analog synths.

That being said, you can get decent analog-style sounds with the 6851 machine and good use of the filter. To fatten things up a bit more I use the superwave and ensemble machines. Add some delay, a bit of reverb, detune and slight pitch instability with an LFO…

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#4

Of course practice makes perfect, but I’m asking if the MnM has the capabilities for the bigger warm sounds.

At the end of the day, a lot of synthesis methods that the MnM employs are similar to other gear I’ve worked with, so I figure my 17 years of experience with other synths puts me a bit ahead of the curve. It’s not like I’m starting from scratch trying to learn all new methods of making sounds.

I have the Tarekith stuff, which I’ve def. been reading over. But reading material and having a discussion is a totally different beast. I’d much rather talk to current users about what they’re doing than just read tips and have no one with whom I can discuss it. This is a discussion forum, so let’s discuss!

So back to my actual question (which Kisielk actually answered). Are people getting bigger sounds through layering? Which FX are you guys using to achieve more warmth or fatness?

Kisielk - I’ve toyed with the detuning a bit. I think my issue is that I hate giving up a channel just for FX, but I think I need to start doing external routing. I have some FX pedals that I could route from the other outputs for reverb, chorus, and flanging. May be neat to mess with that even more than I already do. I really wish each machine had a 2nd oscillator for detuning instead of using another track that mimics the main one.

#5

Try playing more with the supersaw. You can get detuned oscillators by using the UNIL and UNIW parameters.

#6

Riiiiight. I’ve been messing with that a bit. I should play with it some more.

The ensemble stuff is also good for detuning, and I’m still trying to get my head around the FM+ stuff after using FM8 and Sytrus for so long.

#7

Here is an excerpt from the definitive Monomachine experience thread.

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#8

Awesome. Thanks, Peter. I’ll read that tonight.

#9

Run it through a guitar amp or amp simulator

#10

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#11

I’ve been focusing a lot on design with the monomachine lately - specifically getting it to not sound metallic and sharp. I agree with ocobus the very first thing I do when making a new sound is turn off the filter tracking. The filter on MnM is so sensitive (in a good way) that tracking can create such broad frequency changes over the key range - unlike on the A4 where filter tracking can be very useful especially for creating some powerful resonance.

Also I’ve been experimenting a lot building sounds in parallel on the A4 and Monochine. I build same sound on both machines but ubviously using very different settings/techniques. I successfully got a really nice TB-303 emulation and it actually sounded more like the real thing on MnM !?!

I feel I’ve succeeded pretty well with basses and even some nice chords.

All the basses, chords, and synth sounds on this track are Monomachine:
https://soundcloud.com/on-off-on-jamming/cant-stop

The most fun to make was the “organ” type bass sound – when I’m home later I can give some specifics on how I made it. I can’t remember the machine - but I do know it’s a chord with tons of filtering and a little distortion and echo.

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#12

I agree with turning off filter tracking…but…it’s also sometimes really useful to leave the LPF tracking on with the FM machines. As always, experiment and see for yourself.

#13

Oh and one more thing – I will comment that I feel with practice its possible to get ANYTHING with monomachine. It’s my go-to synth now I use it on every single track. I love my A4 to death for it’s analog richness and huge design potential, but I find Monomachine is more “present” and punchy in the mix.

#14

I think external fx might be the secret sauce you’re missing - plenty of analog synths sound pretty weedy until you start adding nice reverbs and delays, tape sims, saturators, overdrive, channel strips, comps etc. the mnm has plenty of outs so try routing into your DAW and playing around with destroying the signal in there.

Obviously it’s preferable to do as much shaping as you can in the sound design phase, but that can only take you so far, especially with a machine that’s renowned for sounding brittle, cold and unabashedly digital!

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#15

Check out the Oxford Overdrive digipro waveforms.
Luscious stuff.

#16

fwiw, i had the MD for three-plus years and the OT for nearly that when i got the MnM, and it still took me a solid year of effort before i started feeling like i was in control more than a small percentage of the time. there are just so many possible ways to set it up. not all of them pay dividends.

for fatter warmer sounds, the filter tracking recommendation others have made is spot on, but perhaps as important is something i’m not often patient enough to do: make very small moves with the parameter knobs while exploring a raw sound. sweet spots are often very narrow and easy to miss.

aside from that i’ve found it most useful to thoroughly explore the bus system and the various permutations of routing synth tracks through it. downstream/parallel effect tracks give you additional filters, delays and eqs (on top of the effect itself) and a lot of lfos that can work wonders. trigging one track with another and sequencing your effects can help greatly – check out lem’s patterns from a couple years back for examples of the latter.

adding different digipro waves is also a good tack … the oxford waves adamjay mentions are a good set and there are more in the files section.

absolutely no slight to tarekith, who has spent a great deal of his time and effort gathering and sharing useful ideas on elektron gear. but his time with the MnM was brief, because by his own admission he didn’t gel with it. his tips document is a compilation of forum posts that may not reflect the depth of knowledge he usually shows with other instruments.

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#17

Yeah, what dub said ^

All I will add is (I’m at a similar stage as you), you say you have experiance with subtractive synthesis, well forget all that and start thinking like its a mad modular. Use all tracks for just one sound (I’m sure you have other synths).

#18

The Filter, EQ and Sample rate reduction and Distortion Parameters are key areas that seem to get the MnM sounding less harsh. I do admit the filters are finicky but once you get the hang of them it really helps.To be honest my first impressions of the MnM were just like yours but after 5 year of dedicated use I feel like the sounds it can produce span a huge range. The MnM is not your typical synth you need to design your sounds as you your track develops while the SEQ is running. Thats when it shines. Its Animated parameters changing will make it sound more organic and fatter. I often save a Kit per page so I can swap out machines or settings to keep things changing. Combine that with a good song idea and song structure and the sound quality of the MnM will not hold you back. You will know you have arrived when you have machines and parameter locks all over the place, you dont know what the hell you’ve done but it just sounds great. Head scratching then hit Save, Save again.
I also add effects to my MnM tracks once I record them into my DAW.
That is probably what you are missing as well.
Sure the MnM can be a tuff bugger some times but as they say no pain no gain. For that it offers it a hell of a box.

#19

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#20

one method that i use to thicken up the sound is to run a track from each kit through my bugbrand pt delay. you can give it a really nice colour playing with the gain controls on both units… and then adding in a lick of delay of course is good, but you can also just keep it dry.

i often find that adding “warmth” to the MnM ends up feeling like overkill… likely a matter of my technique though.