Needing an upgraded Mac for music production (Need some thoughts/opinions)

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

I currently am using my mid-2010 iMac for my non-hardware music production and sound design needs, The issue is that it is an i3 processor, I have it maxed out for ram (I think it’s like 16GB) In all other aspects the specs are fine, It runs decently but not as well as I would like it to and I’m feeling like I may need to upgrade due to some random software issues and slow downs large CPU usage in Ableton live etc. Really my studio is pretty much entirely hardware, There is a post where I listed all of my gear but to sum it up quickly I have all 5 Elektrons which are my main means of production and a ton of synths, modular etc etc I work as a sound designer and produce music on the side.
I use my computer for Ableton live 9, I do some work in Maschine, Essentially for production I use it just to track all of my hardware, automation and arrangement then to mix once everything is recorded (Which means any and all plugins that are needed for the mixing and engineering stage)
For sound design I use a combo of hardware and some software some of which is essential for FX plugins and for editing audio quickly.

So in in a way I’m not using a lot of computer power, I don’t really use any softsynths or anything and there are some workarounds that I do to keep things running but I do need a computer powerful enough to do what I mentioned above.

My question is could I get a second hand Mac that is enough of an upgrade from my current iMac for around $900? (I know that’s a low budget for a Mac but that’s what I have to work with right now and I’m just kicking around the idea) doesn’t matter if it is a macbook or an iMac though a Macbook would be nice so I could take it between the studio and home but that’s not a make it or break it kind of thing
Would it be worth it or should I just tough it out with my current iMac until I can afford a major upgrade?

(I do NOT want to start a mac vs PC debate at all I am looking for a mac because I am much more comfortable on them especially since Windows 8 came out I absolutely can not stand the way way windows 8 and above operate it’s just my personal preference)

What do you guys think?

-Matt

#2

Mines a 2010 27ich iMac I picked up second hand for $500 a couple of yrs ago.
It fast and fab. Ableton is great on a big screen.
Nothing wrong with a 2010 iMac. Stick with it.

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#3

go for an ssd
if you are not able to build one in think about running you system from an external drive…
At a small cost it will run smoother and you do not have to spend a lot of money for that…
regards

#4

If you’ve got the 27" version, it is possible to do an upgrade to an I7. Also replace the DVD with a SSD. Replacing the HDD may cause some issues because there is something with a build in sensor in the HDD if I remember correctly.

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#5

What happens when you increase the buffer size in Ableton? Does that decrease CPU usage?

Do you know someone you can borrow a fast external SSD from? Try moving a project onto the SSD and run it from there? Does that help?

#6

I don’t know if it’s possible with your setup, but you could try Logic Pro instead of live. Runs much better on Macs.

#7

So a solid state drive would really make that much of a difference? I’m surprised by that i was thinking that the processor​ was the major issue
Are you guys talking about replacing my HDD or running an external SSD and running everything off of that?
I don’t have the 27in mid-2010 I have the 21inch so I’m not sure if it’s possible to upgrade the processors on those models.
I’ve tweaked the buffer size to try and solve the weird delayed latency issue, basically the longer Live is open the worse the latency gets but it can take anywhere from 45mins to an hour to happen and it doesn’t always happen it’s bizarre because all I’m doing is running audio from external gear through one channel not messing with the software at all when it happens.
I have used logic (at my last job I was required to learn all of the major DAWs) but I really dislike the way it handles midi and how it handles stretching and chopping audio it’s just my personal preference to use live even though I am almost always in arrangement mode
Ideally I would get a decent MacBook pro but I don’t think I’d be able to find a good one in my current budget.
It sucks because I don’t need a computer for much but at the same time it’s essential in my set up because it’s the only way I track and mix audio I’ve focused on building a hardware centric studio which I don’t regret but in doing so I’ve negleted the CPU, audio interface etc etc side of things

#9

My advice…

Don’t by a mac! 5 ten years ago yeh almost a must for music production.

Now your just paying extra for that apple symbol on the case…

#10

Buy an external SSD drive and use something like carbon copy cloner to clone your startup drive content to the ssd.
Than you can change the startup drive in the system settings and make your own observations.

A lot of performance goes down the drain if the system and apps have to read and write from / to slow mechanic HDD.
For me, SSD was one of those I do not want to go back experiences the moment I used them for the first time.

CPU is one thing but enough RAM and a SSD can make a difference if the computer seems to be too slow.
My imac is really old but still valid and the cost of the external SSD is not wasted if the computer dies or if one is not satisfied with the result.
You can still upgrade to a faster mac and use the SSD as a backup drive…

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#11

Yes, it can make a huge difference, especially if you’re using a lot of audio tracks in your Live project that have to come from disk.

Please note that I emphasized the word “can” in that sentence. This is also why I recommended testing with an external SSD to see if running a Live project from an SSD helps or not.

It can just as well be the case that your performance problems are related to the CPU. You didn’t mention the processor speed of your iMac, but the only two options for a mid-2010 i3 are a 3.06 GHz Core i3 (I3-540) or a 3.2 GHz Core i3 (I3-550) which aren’t the fastest processor

You don’t have to run everything off an external SSD. The best and easiest thing to do would be to move your Live projects to them.

It’s possible, but not easy. I would recommend this unless you know what you’re doing.

That shouldn’t be happening.

Have you tried doing a full clean installation of the most recent version of macOS and Live? It might be that you have all kinds of crap running in the background that’s getting in the way?

What audio interface are you using? Does it require custom drivers?

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#12

don’t think an external SSD makes sense tbh, it’s gonna be throttled by USB2.
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1281653

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#13

I don’t think this is true. At least for notebooks. If you want to buy a “microsoft/windows” notebook with the “really!” same quality and specs, you pay nearly as much as for the macbook. Apple just don’t offers notebooks in the low price category. That’s just my experience from comparisons, I really considered going back to windows. But price was not the big difference

#14

I would agree that replacing the hard drive with a ssd should make a big difference.
I have a 2011 macbook pro and switched the internal drive to a ssd last year. The increase in speed is pretty amazing.
Startup from cold now takes only a few seconds, and opening (fairly light) Ableton projects is down to a few seconds. I used to wait 30 to 40 seconds for my Ableton template to open from the mechanical drive. The whole experience of using the machine is so much nicer and very stable using Ableton.
Granted, my machine has a 2.2 i7 quad processor, but I would be very surprised if you don’t find a pretty drastic performance increase.
A 500Gb SSD is pretty cheap these days, and can be used in another machine or as an external drive if you end up getting a new machine later.
Clean OS install should help too.

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#15

Maybe you should wait for people to start selling their old configurations ( due to the new mac lines ).

1 Like
#16

Thanks everyone for the info you guys have given me a lot to look into.
@Patch77 I understand that side of the Mac vs PC debate but to me it’s a preference I much prefer the way the Mac OS runs and I’m very comfortable on a Mac I used PCs for years and I used to repair them I just like Macs better personally.

For my Audio interface I have a Focusrite Saffire Pro24, I know it’s not the greatest and not what I should be using in a professional environment but like I said I neglected the CPU side of things while I was working on stocking up on hardware.

I have had this issue with a fresh install of both the OS and Ableton it just happens randomly.

I do agree that I should appreciate that it’s not only still running but that it’s running for the most most part pretty while minus the issues that I have mentioned.

I have always had Macs run forever for me, They slow down for sure but they always keep running with the regular maintenance I do…I am typing this from a 2007 macbook (An early white one back when they made them out of plastic)

All that aside you guys have given me some good leads to follow, Wish me luck…I NEED my computer to keep running for me to work no computer to edit and mix audio equals no income so I was pretty sort sighted in not spending money on keeping my computer and audio interface up to date and instead buying all kinds of hardware.

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#17

I’m wondering what your very specific issues are? Do things run fine sometimes and then issues appear? If so it sounds more like software issues then hardware…

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#18

Yes (If it was a simple software issue that would be amazing)
The main issues are:
Unusually high CPU usage in Ableton when running not much more than the basics
A very strange delayed latency issue that appears randomly, Basically I will have Live open with a very simple template and I will be working with my hardware synths and drum machines etc all I am doing is running audio through one channel of Live with no software changes not messing around with Live at all just simply running audio and the longer I have Live open while messing with hardware the longer the latency gets…I have tried the Ableton forums and a few different things but to no avail.
and it runs slower than it should overall. If this was not my work computer (I work as a sound designer) and it was only for music production I wouldn’t be too worried.

Here are some screenshots that may give some more insight honestly maybe I just have something set up stupid:

Screen Shot 2017-02-27 at 7.20.18 PM.png1920×1080 327 KB

Screen Shot 2017-02-27 at 7.21.01 PM.png497×600 49.4 KB

Screen Shot 2017-02-27 at 7.21.13 PM.png503×604 42.9 KB

My audio interface is the: Focusrite Saffire Pro24

For controllers I have:
Novation remote SL zero (For mixer, panning, transport etc)
Novation launchpad

My template consists of:
Two stereo channels
One for the Octatrack (I have all of my hardware running though the OT as an Aux send on my mixer)
One stereo channel is the direct out from my mixer where all of the hardware audio goes in when I’m not using the OT as a master FX unit.

One grouped set of tracks for the Analog four (not at all exceeding the amount of tracks allowed in overbridge)

One grouped set of tracks for the Analog RYTM (Again not at all exceeding the amount of tracks allowed in overbridge)

One stereo channel for an internal feedback loop for sampling audio from direct sources in my computer (Youtube etc)

Although the dedicated Bass station 2 channel is shown I no longer use that because I ran out of USB ports so my current template doesn’t have that but everything else is the same

I have the Wave L2 running on the master channel (I know I know that’s a big no no for recording audio I have it on there for when I am first jamming and coming up with ideas and I take it out when I start actually mixing)
I also had one of the Waves noise reduction plugins at the end of the signal chain too to take out some of the hiss from all the gear but it was pretty CPU intensive so now I only use that now as I am recording individual sounds or tracks then take it out when I’m done.

Even though I have sends set up for drums, Delay, Reverb etc there are no plugins in there until I start mixing.

My midi out from the Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 runs a midi chain though all my gear (with the exception of the A4 and AR since that’s handled in Overbridge)

Something of note I have had this issue before using Overbridge so I know it’s not that.

I know my setup might seem kind of weird but it works for the way I work.

So that’s it all laid out, any and all feedback and suggestions would be very welcome I am super appreciative for the help and direction you guys have given me thus far already you guys have been much more helpful and insightful than I’ve found on the Ableton forum and Gearsluz.

Critical insight to 2018 MacBookPro
#19

The only thing I see that is choking your system is the 32samples buffer. That will kill the CPU for sure. 128 or even 256 will suffice with next to zero noticeable latency and free up a ton of CPU power. At 256, latency should be sub 5ms and thats hardly measurable to the human ear.
And also yes an SSD reduces drag on the entire system and streams samples and writes files faster.

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#20

One thing I notice is the buffer setting in ableton of 32 will put a tremendous load on that processor. Setting it to 64 or 128 will decrease cpu usage significantly, also if you don’t mind, changing the sample rate to 44100 will decrease cpu usage a little more. If your getting a high latency with those settings it might be from Overbridge which does add latency but might seem normal with really low buffer.
Do you have the latest drivers for your audio interface that support Yosemite?
The latency creeping in seems like a software issue.
I’m a bit tired at the moment so can’t look at this much more right now, but those are some thoughts for ya…
Edit: typed at the same time as turbiville :smiley:

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#21

Bro… your buffer size!
Try increasing to 256 or 512 at the least. If youre tracking do it via your Saffire direct and mute your channels…

if youre playing over programmed midi patterns or trying to monitor software effects it will introduce latency, but if everything is outside the box and youre just passing through audio it shouldnt be an issue…