Music Production School

Does anybody have any experience with attending a school or university for sound design or music production?

I find that my current non-music education has held back my chances to really build my music and sound design skills. I’ve looked a bit into DBs in Berlin and some courses in Dublin. I would love to work in sound and audio and flesh out some artistic projects I’ve got in me.

Any tips or experiences with these types of programs? Any warnings that it’s a waste of time and money?I’m a pretty good self learner but really see substantial progress with peers and in an engaging environment.

Went to SAE. Started off doing a diploma after becoming hopelessly unemployed during the GFC. Followed it up by matriculating into the full bachelor degree. I’d pick interest free student loans & student welfare benefits over long term unemployment & the dole any day :joy:

Diploma was worthwhile for me, because I learnt a lot about the basics of recording, mixing & live work that I’d never gotten around to learning previously. I don’t have a lot of use for a great deal of the recording side of things, but enjoyed it nevertheless. You could probably learn the majority of the mixing techniques out of a book/music magazine - I found it better to have practical experience & guidance from tutors. Moved on to the degree 2 years later after dropping out of a games design program.

This time it wasn’t so much about the technical side of things as management & production/design philosophies, although the practical projects were a lot bigger. For example, researching how classic albums were done or comparing how famous producers worked and then applying this to modern production. Or for the film audio stuff, learning more about developing an overall coherent design as opposed to the basics of foley. There were also business, legal & marketing studies - these are VERY worthwhile.

Finally, I had to do a great deal of research over the course of the program culminating in a capstone project of my choice. This project was not only intended to show off our audio skills, but also contribute to the current body of research (so not just another comparison of drum recording techniques). My final project looked at spatialisation techniques (binaural vs surround sound headset) as a potential method of increasing the success rate of audio induced vection (the sensation of movement). Other projects weren’t quite as advanced. Not even sure if they include the research bit anymore.

On top of that, the campus had merged with another college (which specialises in games design, animation etc) so there was also the potential to crosspollinate, and get involved with those guys on the ground floor.

But should you go? If you do, don’t go into it thinking it’ll get you a job. From a statistical point of view, it probably won’t (I followed it up by going straight to a traditional engineering program). Think about it along the lines of an art school, where you get to try out a lot of ideas in an engaging environment with like minded people. Maybe it’ll turn into something big or maybe it won’t.

A lot of people get pissy about the whole audio school paradigm. According to them, they’re all cowboys that will take your money & won’t teach you anything. Perhaps this is true for a lot of them. Or you will specifically get turned down for jobs as a result of going to one of these schools. Personally, I got something very worthwhile out of it - and I’d do it again.

Maybe look at the actual program of where you’re thinking of going too, and the reputation of the school - not all places are equal. Maybe I got extremely lucky & the naysayers are spot on with their assessments. I think your best bet would be a larger school/university that teaches multiple forms of creative media (think games, animation, design, film etc) as opposed to “recording school”.

This is just my opinion and my experience.

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want to warm up the Topic.

Does anyone else could share experience with music productions schools? Thinking about Acadamy of Arts vs. Point Blank or SAE or Deutsche Pop vs. online learning on your own.

What are pros and cons?

I’ve done full time music courses and have an advanced diploma in electronic music production… and while it was a lot of fun and I met a lot of great people in the industry which was probably the best thing about the whole experience… there is nothing there that that you can’t learn yourself from the Internet… most of the successful people in music industry have no formal training.
The experience was fantastic but if it’s going to put you in debt or cost money you can’t afford I would recommend against it

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This is my chance to show off this lol…
If you want a piece of paper that says you know how to make music do it…
joining a band or taking piano lessons or getting a job djing at your local pub
has more credibility in reality

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I attended CRAS in Tempe, Arizona in 2000. This was pretty much before YouTube existed. The music industry was extremely difficult to make a career in at the time, and it is much more difficult now. You will learn a lot and get some hands on experience with gear you can’t afford (ssl consoles etc), but you can learn a great deal online, with a few drum machines, a desktop mixer, and ableton. If you expect a return on the money invested, it only comes in knowledge. I hope that helps.

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I was hoping to learn about writing riffs sound design and amazing chord progressions and how to arrange the perfect track etc, but only learnt about compressors, how synths work, recording audio etc and mostly already knew about this… in 2000 it would be worth it, not these days…
though I’ve met and now friends with my favourite djays I grew up listening too on the underground radio station. meeting people is probably the main thing from these courses

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yep I know what you mean! I can emagine that you are learning more technical skills and machines but less about the art. But that´s what I´m thinking about. I already attented to some workshops as I organize the workshop scedule for our DAVE Festival and we had tutors like Robert Henke, Electric Indigo, Thomas Wagensommerer or Kabuki … and they all spoke more about their art. And it was very interesting to get an insight on how they work and their creative state of mind.

But that´s what I´m looking for in first place when thinking about an education school.

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Something I’ve been following but have not joined yet but probably should is from an artist I had a few records growing up and fairly successful artist BassClef…
he does this thing feedback Friday where they listen to your tracks and tell you what you are doing wrong… think he’s a bit undercover on this site and doesn’t promote on here but seems to be an Elektron enthusiast also @Analog_Sol
Probably better than any music school as I keep seeing his students killing it recently…
Edit: Bit of an inside tip and hope he doesn’t mind me mentioning that

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I got a HND in London on a music course that was government subsidised must have been around 2005/6.

Its def more about the people you meet and taking in everyones different styles and ways of working along with the chance to listen to your music in a professional environment.

You really hear what high-end gear can achieve, id never have got the opportunity to use an SSL desk or Tube-Tech compressor to know how it compared to plugins back then. + free studio time.

There was also the sound design aspect but I felt we ended up focusing too much on midi during that part of the course but really there is so much stuff you can learn by yourself in that respect…

For me tho at that time it was the best thing I could have done, I met people through it who are great friends now.

I thought about finishing off a degree at SAE but for me it wasn’t worth it financially in terms of what you come out with.

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Thanks Dan! Yes, that’s true. I used to produce as Bass Kleph and have now turned that name into a music production school. www.basskleph.com There’s a bunch of free stuff up there too.

I still produce, but mostly just as my new project Analog Sol. To keep things interesting I decided to play live and do it all on hardware (mostly Elektron). You can see a video of me doing that here https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2673425572877181

The music school mostly teaches “in the box” training. I teach in Ableton as it is popular but 99% of the lessons apply to any DAW.

Our Feedback Friday weekly group sessions have been massively useful for our students. It helps them finish songs faster, better, and get signed. I am happy to say we have many success stories. btw these sessions have since moved to Wednesdays and been renamed “Workshop Wednesday”. They are a feature of our flagship course The Road To Main Stage, but you can also access them if you are a member of our Inner Circle or if you sign up with one of our private Mentors.

I don’t yet have any courses on Elektron gear, but a few people have requested that, so I put it on the list. As soon as I get time between making the other courses, I’ll take a look at it.

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Anyhow proper tutoring instead of just doing a music course is probably a lot better and I need to take my own advice

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I have a friend who graduated at Full Sail. Dude racked up some huge debt. He works in the industry now, living in L.A., but I think was only because his sister was dating a guy who worked at W.B… He’s the dude who processes artist checks, so he doesn’t even work in the studios. Said it was a lot of fun attending music school, but in no way worth it in his current situation. I liken it to getting a creative writing degree at Harvard. It’s great and all, but really, do you need a degree to be creative, especially one that cost you $80,000+?

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I received a BS in Recording Industry Management back in 2006 from MTSU. I’d say that if you are going into such a degree with the aim to make a living from working in the audio world you may do fine, but if you are going because you want to pursue you creative side you should think twice about it. For the amount of money you’ll spend, you could easily rent studio time, record bands, network, etc, and make a name for yourself in the industry. I would say that going to school helps with networking, but if you are a people person and already know people creating various types of media (or live in a big city like NY or LA) then you can do that on your own. The biggest benefit is working with high quality equipment (particularly microphones, preamps, desks, acoustic spaces) that you can’t do at home.

Personally, I went to school because my parents wanted me to get a degree, and I had already been doing this stuff on my own. I had no interest in working as a recording engineer for other people, and believe that is the only route to go if you actually want to make a career out of getting a degree. If you are just trying to improve your skills, you are better off using your ears, following tutorials, and renting time at a well equipped studio to get a handle on the things you want to learn.

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I was watching Matt Johnson the keyboardist from Jamiroqoaui and he said he got all his chops from practicing the basics and understanding the sounds. He never actually went to Piano class. So the moment he tries to take the piano classes they want him to start from 0 rather than correct him on his current mistakes

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In the end the advantage of a school is all about feedback and getting questions answered quickly from people who (hopefully) know their stuff, right?

In Cologne/Germany there is now the SINEE institute (a guy that went to SAE opened it – boiled down to electronic music production). They have packages from 80€/month to 139€ for premium (right now on summer sale for 99€). With 1:1 sessions / track feedback etc. pp. – everything is in german though and online. So I suppose similar to @Analog_Sol’s school (besides the language ;)?

My guess is that we will see more of such schools in the future – I was thinking about joining one. But I am shy :smiley:

It’s a shitload of money.

I was at a job interview today to be a guitar instructor and they noticed I only had my associate’s degree. When they asked why I didn’t get my bachelor’s I told them because it was a lot of money. I couldn’t afford tens of thousands of dollars on a music degree. So I took my education into my own hands and never stopped learning, studying, practicing, playing, listening…

I’m poor and still working crappy non music related jobs a lot–but I have a feeling if I got a degree the only different thing would be that I’d be in debt. I got lucky and played bass/sang for a production company (covid!) and the guy who hired me (a really great musician) is honestly doing a job I know I can do–creative director of bands. Getting people the music. Making sure we’re all on the right track. Playing what needs to be played. etc. That guy’s got a degree he attained at Berklee which he talks so much about he enjoyed–and I’m sure he had a great time-- but I bet he’s still paying it off. Probably for a while, too.

It’s just an insane amount of money. Even if it doesn’t seem so bad. “Oh audio school is only $20k whereas a four year degree is $50k” yeah it’s “better” but jesus man the music industry is not easy to make money in. It just isn’t. You have to be really good at marketing yourself (which most musicians AREN’T and marketing/business are things I just recently started taking more seriously) and you also have to be really talented. But in the end–no one gives a shit about your shiny degree. They just hear your music and think “that’s good, I’ll hire him” or “I don’t like that”

Listen to the Six Figure Home Studio. One of those guys went to school and he doesn’t regret it cause he met some people and got some experience. The other guy didn’t go to school at all and just learned Pro Tools completely by himself and decided to record random bands.

We live in a very strange time of democratization of information yet everyone still feels compelled to get a degree because that’s just what people do and (so they say) it’s what employers want. But we have literal industry professionals giving free tutorials on youtube. We even have stuff like Mix with the Masters for $350/year. That will get you much, much farther than school–I can guarantee that.

Connections is the one thing. But are connections worth $20k? Go out to bars and meet people (yeah i know it’s covid). Do “cold calls” online (tricky–but possible. i’ve gotten at least one client that way). Learn good social skills. Be a “go giver.”

EDIT: Someone mentioned CRAS earlier. I live in Phoenix, AZ and lots of kids here went to CRAS. Most of those kids went on to do corporate AV–a job you most certainly don’t need a degree for, as I worked corporate AV myself. So I literally had the same job as these kids with their degrees…Yes, CRAS kids MAKE it…straight into AV.

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Wow another Arizonan here on the forum. I’ve never seen so many people living in AZ on one forum before. Elekteon should just move their head offices to the Grand Canyon State…and hire us.

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I would need to get a degree though LOL

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Any specific courses/schooling on Sounddesign? I am looking into this, my wife said I should get some training to get more confident and expand my hobby into something a little bit bigger every year. :smiley: