More Machines? Seriously, we need them

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#41

Edit TLDR

host a competition with the 20 best traditional drum sounds (as you’d want in a machine) created with rhe rytms current engine, then release a sysex with all of them included plus samples of various colors of noise. This would be a much better introduction and jumping off point to working with the rytm then just the whacky elektron presets or TR samples for new/old users.
Xxxxx

I think the only constructive thing we can do until elektron releases an update is to create a thread dedicated to users showing off their expanded analog drum synthesis patches created with the available machines. If somone makes a sweet agogo or timbale recipe, share and compile.

One of my favorite parts of the rytm is the ability to make my own patches and save them in the sounds folder so I can kinda fake creating my own “machines.” By this I mean, make a maraca patch and save it, now the next time I want maracas I just load up the sound and adjust the parameters on the synth page and leave the basic structure that defines it as a maraca sound untouched.

If people want more machines just so they can make more spaced out sounds beyond traditional stuff I would recommend the A4/keys. Made a pretty sick FM cricket chorus the other night

#42

Bin I open up Over bridge in ableton, load up maxforlive lfo device ( I prefer this but any would do), hit map, and click on the parameter and bam. Extra filter? Choose any multitude out of ableton library place it in the effects line and have it going back to the rhythm or in my case the Ot. Want crazy noise fest place an lfo on all the parameters press random and play. Extra machines, ring mods checkout maxforlive, if you want a hardware only solution its might not be ideal but it works is easy and can do so much more.

#43

Easiest way is with Live Suite’s Max for Live lfo device - just drop it in as a midi effect before the Overbridge plugin, click on map, adjust the parameter in the plugin window you want to assign the lfo to, and then adjust the lfo parameters to taste. There are other Max lfo tools, as well as stuff like Xfer’s LFO Tool, but this one works for me. Same principle as what this guy is doing here:

Theres also an envelope tool in the Max Essentials pack, works in pretty much the same way, but it’s a bit trickier because envelopes need to be gated - ideally you need to be sequencing from Live, or double up your pattern in a Live clip to trigger the envelope as appropriate.

I also use Numerology a bit, although I haven’t really gotten stuck into it with 1.1 as yet, it’s a great modulation source.

#44

Do you know if the MFL LFOs output single channel (read: 128 step) control messages or does it use multi-channel interpolation to achieve smooth modulation?

#45

No idea - no documentation or specs came with the Max Essentials pack. My ears tell me that it’s pretty smooth, haven’t ever noticed any stepping or clicks, I’ve used it pretty extensively over the past few years with my Slim Phatty, less so with the Elektrons.

It’s a good point you make, though - the architecture of the Rytm does’t really lend itself to a tonne of new machines being added. It’s not like they can just drop them in via dsp like on the Machinedrum. Tbh, if I was betting I’d say that the reason the ring mod kick hasn’t appeared is that there were serious technical issues with it.

Also, I may be tripping balls here, but I could’ve sworn that one of the Elektron guys posted in Swedish to say - through the power of google translate - “better late than never”. Post seems to have disappeared now, so it could’ve (wisely) been deleted … or I could just be imagining it.

#46

DSP machines might be possible too. Sample rate reduction would be nice.,or a sample layering machine could be useful.

#47

Ok, that sounds good for slow LFOs on non stepping parameters (theres no smoothing like using the internal LFO) . Not good for fast, tuned or retriggered LFOs though, the integration isn’t there…

#48

You’d think so!

The problem is that, at that price point, where are the better analog drum machine options at this time?

There’s no real competition, so there’s no real need to lift the game in this regard.

Sadly, the AR is the best option for me, but I suspect I’d get better results sending VSTs through the AR voices via OB and layering it with AR engines and samples.

In fact, maybe I should do that today…

#49

Indeed, $1500 is a lot of money for musicians, but as many are finding, for better or for worse, analog is a low return on your investment compared to their digital counterparts. It is more expensive to design, test, and produce - even with the heavy (let me emphasize heavy) use of SMT on these new analog instruments.

The allure of analog is not the features it offers. If you cost/comparison a prophet and a virus, it will become clear which offers the wider sonic palette.

#50

I agree with everything that you say, but I can’t see how it relates to what I’ve written.

The competition amongst analog drum machines at this price point is very gentle. As such, there’s no real need to up the game significantly in response to competitor developments. I’m still surprised by this, especially in this reemergence of love for analog synthesizers.

We all know that digital synthesis is cheap to implement and offers wider tonal ranges, which yet struggle to duplicate analog behavior, still. At half the price now, the MD offers 20 times more options, but I’d go with the AR every time for the sake of sonic pleasure alone!

Needs a good EQ though!

#51

Oh man, what a discussion

does any of you guys allready checked out the details on every percussion-engine on the Rytm? I have my doubt. Just the sample-extension alone is great… it gives the machine balls… instead of moaning about new engines you should ask about new modulation-sources like the amp- or filter-envelope

#52

Are your sure there’s no smoothing with the Max Essentials lfo? I haven’t been able to confirm either way, but my suspicion is that there is - not that it means much, but it has a smoothing control. Anyway, there are a bunch of other lfo tools available that do for sure have smoothing.

Plus, it’s not like the lfo sends a cc directly to the Rytm, the parameter in the plugin is modulated, but communications with the Rytm are handled by Elektron’s proprietary method.

If you’re talking about interpolation on the Rytm’s side, the only issue I’ve encountered to date is slight clicking when as an experiment I assigned a live lfo to a parameter that already had an internal lfo assigned. Given that there are only 2 lfo destinations in the Rytm anyway, it’s not something I regard as a huge issue - envelopes seem to work fine on externally modulated parameters. “Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this. Well I wouldn’t do that, then”.

Granted, I don’t have much use for audio rate lfos personally, but I just tried rates up to 40hz on filter cutoff and oscillator tuning in an A4 patch I’m working on, no artefacts, clicking or stepping that I could hear.

You can retrigger, would obviously need to be gated similarly to envelopes as above, and you can use tuned lfos just as easily as you can internally (i.e. not very easily). As far as I can see there aren’t any major issues with either live’s lfo implementation or OB’s communications. Having actually used it a bit, I’d say that the integration is pretty much fine for my purposes.

Very much doubt that we’ll see dsp machines on the Rytm, either. Fwiw, layering and bit reduction are both easily done itb, can’t see that they would be a priority. Actually, one of my favourite uses for OB is to use Decimort for bit/rate reduction, then send the audio to the Rytm for filtering and distortion - instant vintage sampler vibes.

#53

speaking of FM, did you know that you can do FM with the LFOs on the rytm? You don’t necessarily need an FM machine :alien:

#54

please show us how?

#55

We just got a huge OS update on the A4 and RYTM with additional LFO and sequencer tricks, including some FM-ish possibilities.

There is always the sample playing parts that can add any sound that is missing. Of course this is a compromise in some respects but it isn’t a bad one.

The OP kind of kicked off a negative vibe and it seems some people here have run with it. While some critique is fair, if he is no longer enchanted with RYTM he should just move on to another piece of gear.

I think the big lesson learned is don’t buy an expensive machine without first reading the specs (like no sequencer midi out) or expecting the manufacturer’s priority for new features will align with your own.

Did you expect your RYTM to turn into a decent recording I/O and effects box? I sure didn’t when I bought it. That’s quite a bit of after-purchace value add on.

It’s not new track machines but let’s not pretend RYTM development has been abandoned in any way.

#56

@debug
As far as I can tell, the RYTM only got the sequencer tricks and did not get another LFO. Please correct me if I’m mistaken (for real!). The argument was actually for getting them to be updated separately. Someone pointed out here (and I agree) that it wouldn’t have taken nearly as long to get individual units firmware updates vs lumping them together.

And as for “did you expect your RYTM to turn into a decent recording I/O and effects box” I absolutely did not. I also have absolutely no need for it. I would assume most people willing to lay down this much money for something as specific as a drum machine already have a serious I/O option. Also, the Reverb/Delay effects are good, but not great. I use them ITB of the RYTM, but nowhere else. If those are huge selling points for someone, they would be way better off picking up an Eventide H9 Max and a sub $300 I/O and a Nord Drum 2.
Surely others don’t agree with me, and that’s understandable. But I would also assume many do agree with me and would have been much happier seeing Elektron’s limited resources used to improve the “drum machine” side of this Drum machine… The fact that they didn’t is the part I have trouble believing.

Also, again…I thoroughly examined the specs although not as far as learning how every voice is constructed physically. That I will plead ignorance to and on page two you can see someone with that info very adeptly explain it. Other than that, I learned everything there was to know before purchasing. For example, I knew the sequencer was not able to sequence external midi. The point was I was losing my “enchantment” as you put it and couldn’t even feel good about having an external sequencer. I longed for it, I did not mistake it’s existence.

And lastly, “not abandoned in any way.” Ummm, yes it has been in one very clear way: lack of machines. Hence this entire thread you are apart of. The manual has a reference to a “still yet to be heard” machine in it for heaven’s sake. And that is from 2014!
I see no mention of OverBridge or I/O interface options. We could wax-wise on our individual interpretations of “abandonment” but I have more pressing matters honestly. I will say this though, if the idea of buying something with the promise of future updates is so stupid or naive, then you don’t know shit about business. The next time you get work done on your house, tell the contractor you won’t pay him until it’s completely, absolutely, never in need of anything ever, finished. Then let us know how that works out for ya. Then try it on your lawyer.

The whole point of this thread was to hopefully glean a glimmer of hope that new machines were on the horizon. After three pages of responses not one was from Elektron. I had low hopes of them actually responding but I still hoped (and will hope) just the same. But frankly, I’m so tired of the assumptions of fanboys. Whether they are Elektron, Apple or whatever. Apparently if you aren’t as happy with the machine as they are, then you are an idiot. Well, I am an idiot. I am an idiot for wasting my time correcting their assumptions. I sometimes learn from my mistakes and this will be the last time I commit it.

In the eternal words of Mogatu:
“I feel like I’m taking crazy pills”

#57

Kicked off a negative vibe? Since when Elektron products can’t be criticized here, and can only be admired and acclaimed? The OP did complain (if it wasn’t a critique, more than a complain) in a very correct manner, he didn’t throw shit to the fan in any moment. That’s the first point. Many others (me included) asked to have similar “love” to AR like AK/A4 had, which to me has been great, isn’t that fair?

The second point, that most of you are forgetting, is: when you buy a product, you are not just buying the product itself but the service associated with it, and Elektron is well known for giving great support (updates, new features, etc). So the point of “buy what it is as it is” is not totally valid here. Many people buy Apple stuff because the support they are given, and I don’t see others moaning why people ask for support for Apple products in the same way some of you are doing here. Have you really bought an smartphone expecting not to have future OS updates? I don’t think so. So yeah, maybe buying this machine expecting it to be a total different beast the next year isn’t totally the best way to buy stuff, neither it is the other perspective of “what you buy is what you get”.

Just to finish: some of you seem unnecesarily upset to hear other people complains but this is a forum. Ok, some complains are just a joke, but some others are more than fundamented. So did you expect here to only read people saying how amazing is Elektron’s stuff?

p.s: this is not directly an answer to you, but to all with similar responses in this thread

#58

please show us how?[/quote]
Well, if FM is a controlled form of fast pitch modulation (vibrato), then you can do it by using an LFO to modulate the pitch of any sound… just make the modulator (LFO in this case) run in audio-rate speeds!

Regarding the topic, I was afraid using the term “fanboi” might derail things…

#59

So let’s say new machines is up next.

Boom - new kicks, snares and whatnot appear in the next update - hell, even a bass synth.

In what ways would this enable you? What would you be able to do then, that you can’t do now? Not in the terms of “I can’t make ring mod kicks cause there aren’t any”, but more like “I want to make this kind of music and it’s not just possible yet” or “I want to play at this club but I can’t because” or “I have this idea of an EP and if only the Analog Rytm could …”

I’ve heard a lot about what additional stuff people want from Elektron. Not so much about what they’d do with this stuff, if Elektron did decide to offer it.

#60

I don’t think it really works like that. Phuture didn’t write begging letters to Roland to invent a really bad emulation of a bass guitar so they could make acid house. It’s impossible to know what musicians might do with new machines, which is a good thing!