@bsp:
your mention of hi-hats with other voices makes me wonder: is it possible for the RYTM to be able to use any machine for any voice? I know it’s not setup that way now, but possibly a firmware update could take care of that?
That could satisfy some needs right off the bat. It would be great to experiment with making whole kits from one “machine.” Or at the very least using different “tom” engines on any tom voice.
no, you can’t use any machine for any voice.
what I meant is that you can take a snare or bass drum machine, for example, and hipass it so it sounds a bit like a hihat.
are you saying it’s a hardware limitation? I know it’s not possible now but if it’s not a hardware limit then a firmware update could allow it…right? Kicks and snares are swappable in regards to machines, why not all of them.
Different machines use different circuitry -> hardware “limitation”
Best,
Hans
Only Elektron can tell for sure.
If they used an FPAA it might be possible to add new machines and also remove that fixed machine<>track relationship.
Maybe something went terribly wrong ™ and they cannot update the hardware for some reason, who knows.
I am ok with the way it is now but I think we can all agree that more would be better and that “boutique” synths are always way too pricey 
This, plus it’s my first analog piece of hardware, and I love its sound. It’s more the actual feeling of “being unfinished” than anything else, but in the end I think it will be worth having kept it.
I just hope Elektron gets a bit more straightforward with the updates of AR, seeing how Overbridge is almost finished (its main core, despite being still in beta), and A4 has also received a lot of improvements. It’s time for drums!
new machines are always welcome… but sorry dudes… 70% of the forum is full of wishes… well, i tested the AR, i loved the sounds, i love the sequencer i bought it… and now i am going to sell my jomox .-))… but really: do you buy things in good hope that some day it will have all features you can imagine? :-)))
not meant aggressive… but when spending 1.500 to a box, i usually really try out if it fits my needs :-))
I’ve been using the Ar since initial release, I still haven’t found the bottom of the machine yet use it everyday, for extra machine I use ableton with overbridge. There’s no point going on and on about how pure a synthesis you are while ignoring the greatness of the two together : endless lfos! All sorts of black magic plus the great thing about ableton is max for live it can do anything you want if you really want to do what you want go to maxforlive and check out the many free devices. Oh I don’t want to use a computer? Come on its 2016, Ar by it self is a magic machine ar with overbridge is intergalac i look forward to more update s in the meantime I’m enjoying trying to get to the bottom of this machine with or with out the computer.
Seriously, my #1 feature request for the Rytm, way ahead of more machines, would have been another lfo per track. It would have been, but with Overbridge I can have as many lfos, envelopes or step modulation sources as I want. Imho OB is vastly underrated around here.
If I feel I need a noise machine, I use a sample of white/pink/grey noise, if further layering is needed for transients or whatever, in most of my kits I can spare a voice to do it. Or just use a Live drumrack.
Really don’t see that the Rytm feels unfinished, I haven’t even come close to exhausting its possibilities in the box itself, even aside from what it can do with Overbridge.
there should be a rule that says that before posting about how desperately “we” need more of this or of that for the rytm/OT/whatnot you should have released at least one record with that tool before being allowed to do so. then, maybe, i would consider taking them serious.
^ agreed - it’s just hot air
Nicely put Batman !
@benway: (regarding noise) By that logic you could remove the entire synthesis engine and just use samples for everything (through the analog filter / amp / distortion / compressor).
The point is that it would be useful if you could synthesize different kinds of noise. I’m well aware that I can use other synths to do that and just load a sample.
That’s what i’ve been doing so far, too. Please do not confuse me with someone who claims that he “desperately needs this”.
I do agree that the AR does not feel unfinished and to me it was well worth its price the way it is now.
However, there are some things that would be very useful to have (actually more important than new machines, at least to me), and these would not even be very difficult/time consuming to implement.
So if you look at it from that point of view, it should be understandable that some people are a bit sour when they see how much time/effort is put into PC software development (=useful only to a certain group of users) instead of firmware development (=useful to all users).
@Masproduct:
Endless LFOs are nice but you do not need Overbridge for that. This has been possible for quite a long time, actually since the very beginning.
I understand that it is nice to have a ready-made VST plugin for that but I seriously doubt that this was the main obstacle with Overbridge.
More likely, the biggest task was the multichannel-audio-over-USB part.
From what I read, this currently only works in one specific DAW and not even for all users, some even say it breaks easily when the OS is updated.
Makes you wonder if it would not have been cheaper for Elektron to just send free multichannel audio interfaces to all their customers.
Well, at least I have been using the AR this way, long before Overbridge.
Although, I’ve recently started to record the main outs more often because it’s nice to be able to use the builtin effects.
And yeah, I do use computers, a lot.
What I don’t like is constantly going back and forth between a synth and the PC, so I use synth editors only when there is no sane way around it (e.g. FS1R).
To everyone else considering the AR: It’s been said before but cannot be stressed enough: Always buy things for what they are, not what they might become.
There is a fundamental misunderstanding of the limits of analog synthesis architecture in the camp that is consistently requesting new instrument types be added to the Rytm.
Each analog voice in the Rytm uses a circuit that is purpose built to perform a specific action with a limited amount of digital control over the routing of CV and audio passthrough. It is feasible in this case to say we could make an FM voice by applying an unused digital or analog oscillator to the carrier in order to make a new sound, but there isn’t a way to eschew the hardware limitations of the circuits as they are designed to make a completely open architecture as there is in the DSI Tempest, or as someone suggested above adding an entirely new filter.
If you do not follow this explaination, consider this. The TR-808 in an analog drum synthesizer with discrete circuits for each voice, purpose built for their assigned duties. The Rytm expands on this idea by adding limited digital control to these analog circuits, but there is no way to take the TR-808’s T-bridge resonator and turn it into a saw wave oscillator, or somehow add in an additional analog filter with a firmware update. The amount that can be done to the voice is limited by the design of its circuit.
You can sequence the AR from the DAW that’s running OB.
I’d like new machines too but there are so many possibilities when you approach sound design using al the tabs+sequencer rather than focusing on the synthesis tab.
For noisier, less metallic hi-hats try modulating the tune with a fast lfo.
Limitation breeds creativity
I’m reading a lot of overreaching “people who want machines don’t understand synthesis” type of responses here. First off, that’s real constructive… Secondly, I’m speaking for myself here, I’ve been studying synthesis for over a decade now. Am I the greatest, hell no, but I understand synthesis just fine. With that said, nobody is doubting the amount you can ring out of any single machine with the lfos, the sequencer/plocks, etc…
The simple fact is this. It’s impossible to make an FM Kick without using FM. You could get some darn close results, but in the end you need a carrier and a modulator or you don’t get that sound. Hence the reason you have the ability to choose an FM kick machine of the 3 choices (heaven forbid you get choices you lazy synthesist). All we are asking is for more tools to make sounds…period. I use my RYTM everyday and get good results, like I stated earlier. I also didn’t buy it solely on the promise of more machines. Seriously guys, nobody did so maybe we can all acknowledge that and get over it. It is however a part of the reason I decided to invest a sizeable amount of money. Therefore, yes, I do expect more machines after clearly being told they were going to come.
I’ve spent hundreds of hours on the RYTM and I’ve tried every trick I know to get some sounds that are in my head on to this machine. Are there more things I could know? Absolutely. Am I going to put up a song to prove my “worth” to a bunch of faceless people on the internet before I make a request? HA! Maybe you should preach what your “practice” their Bruce and bestow upon us your genius. I’m sure we will all be humbled afterwards.
So, you don’t want machines? Good for you. You do want machines? Good for you too. Whatever camp you may rest in is hardly an indication of your abilities. It’s amazing how people ASSume so much from so little.
If anybody needs me, I’ll be in the “more machines” camp hunched over a black box.
the new machines, and previously promised “coming soon” ring mod BD will be an awesome addition when they’re ready to release them.
I imagine they are waiting to lump together more features together for a major release.
I suppose a bunch of new factory patterns and kits will be added as well to demonstrate the new sound shaping capabilities.
i’ve barely tapped all the power of the RYTM, so no problem exploring and pushing the other functions in the mean time.
the most recent update with trig probabilities etc. came as a complete surprise so I’m sure elektron will not disappoint for the delay
Seriously, my #1 feature request for the Rytm, way ahead of more machines, would have been another lfo per track. It would have been, but with Overbridge I can have as many lfos, envelopes or step modulation sources as I want. Imho OB is vastly underrated around here.
If I feel I need a noise machine, I use a sample of white/pink/grey noise, if further layering is needed for transients or whatever, in most of my kits I can spare a voice to do it. Or just use a Live drumrack.
Really don’t see that the Rytm feels unfinished, I haven’t even come close to exhausting its possibilities in the box itself, even aside from what it can do with Overbridge.[/quote]
Hey, can you explain how you use OB to assign additional LFOs or envelopes to a parameter on the RYTM?
Haha! Bravo!!
@monomachine: Vitriol aside, what some, including myself are referring to when discussing a lack of understanding are in regards to the limitations of the hardware circuits, not the knowledge of the principles of synthesis.
Previously in this discussion I saw you ask why any machine could not function on any channel, and correctly assumed it was a hardware limitation. The voices that are swappable are indeed identical circuits. The voices that are not, are unique to their function and exist as isolated entities.
Let’s say I have a noise generator, an envelope, and a resonant filter with an audio and CV routing matrix. I could, in theory, press this simple voice into service as a number of rhythmic devices (bass-drum, snare, etc) and perhaps even a sine/square/saw oscilator with various levels of feedback and overload assuming the op-amps/VCAs can be driven and "abused’ for this purpose. What we could not do, however, is perform a function that would require an additional circuit. This is probably obvious to you in this scenario, but I could not make an additional analog filter appear in the signal chain by virtue of a firmware update. I can however create several voice typed (read: machines) from this circuit, which is what Elektron is doing.
Some of the requests in the thread involved adding functionality that would require a redesign or alteration of the analog circuitry in the system. This is something that could be done with a revision, but the amount of honest and actionable change that can be made with the current architecture is finite and limited by it’s own nature.
Realize I am not scrutinizing your credentialing as someone who has used synthesizers for a very long time, but it does us well to consider the psychical limitations of our tools.