Midi advice (automate mutes/solos/fader)

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#3

You’re not doing anything wrong, but you are (as you can surely tell by the number of workarounds involved in achieving what you want) going against the purpose of the design of the OT as spontaneous live manipulator/hub.

I don’t know which DAW you prefer but, if I were going to try to do what you want, I would just use Ableton Live.

I don’t use a DAW, but there are many forum users who use the combination of Live and OT effectively. Check out posts by forum member wascal, for example.[/quote]
Yeah I know what you’re saying. The ‘live manipulation’ thing is half the reason I picked up an OT. But I already find the internal effects super limiting (no amp sim, having to use spatialiser on an effects slot just to mono/narrow a track, eq taking an effects slot etc…) and I always run stuff through tape, so some time or another each project is going to have to be split to stems and exported… Hoping I can potentially get all moves automated or sequenced and then cue each track out to record individually in daw.
The box is way more fun/organic than ableton to sit and jam random new stuff on, so I’m gonna be using it as much as a writing tool as a live tool. And when I use it live I also have to think about guitar/guitar pedals/looper/vocals/other sampler/keys etc… So I’m gonna have to automate at least some stuff in advance, export, tweak/effetcs, re-import and then work out where I’m gonna be able to also do live fader/mangling/weird sequencer trigs stuff…

#4

Hey man,

Pretty late on this thread, apologies! Im a fairly new OT user, now starting to get my head round it and and have allot of fun. I’ve come to the stage where I’ve got a full song I want export for further mixing but am running into the same problems as you were here. What was your workaround in the end?

#5

Hey, in the end I just record stereo mix out of OT L+R… Lazy solution :wink:

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#6

exactly what i do also… too much of a hassle with the workarounds.

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#7

I prefer to record Main with Dynamic Recorders setting (no time limit). Up to 9mn at 16bit , minus the Flex samples time in RAM.
No DAAD conversion.

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#8

My method is to make a proper arrangement that will manage pattern progression and mutes,

and have ableton live (as a slave) record the fader movement in a clip,

then when you play the arrangement, all fader stuff will be automated,

you can also automate other parameters, I change scenes by myself but I guess it’s also programmable (in the arranger?)

I only record the master but you could make 8 recordings, if fader is automated the final result will be fine.

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DAW multitrack recording - Octatrack
#9

I always planned to do this but never got round to trying to set it up. Def sounds like the best solution for mixing a track with lots of performance/improv tho.

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#10

Yes you can set scenes and in arranger. I would do like this too, midi crossfader Cc48 recording. Maybe with an Mpc sequencer, or eventually in Ot ! Crossfader midi control is very efficient in Ot, but I never tried to record it !
Ok let’s try it right now. :wink:

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#11

I tried to record crossfader into Ot midi tracks :

Wtf? So weird behaviors about crossfader cc48 midi channel. If i set channel 1 for midi rec, it sends channel 2, if I set channel 2 it sends channel 1.
Fucking mess with the Autochannel too.
I give up for today. Infos are welcome.

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#12

Ah now I remember : if you set the same midi channel for audio and midi tracks, audio tracks can’t send midi, and midi tracks can’t receive midi.:zonked:

This explaining that. :sketchy:

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#13

Got it working?

#14

@Callofthevoid @Nikarga I’ve been heavily considering going down this route, as it just seems like it will give a more natural result.

How do you guys find doing full mixes on the OT? I just don’t know if my results would be as good, not being able to do bus compression compression, parallel compression, reverb send for stereo spacing etc.

Are you getting results as good as you would do mixing on a DAW, / results up to commercial standard?

#15

Gave up as I said. Need one month holidays for that ! :wink:
Anyway, a linear sequencer such as an (a small QY100, or MPC 500 one day), would be better for a live recording.
Not sure it would be possible to record crossfader in OT while playing with arranger.
That’s a challenge, but so PITA !

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#16

That sounds like a pretty neat method, maybe the best workaround. The only posts I’ve read about using this problem so far always encounter some kind of problem, so is encouraging to see you have it working.

How are you actually setting it up? By creating a midi track in ableton to receive midi from the (all ins?) on the ot, then performing the song on the ot, with that midi track recording midi info from it. Then following this, performing the song on the ot in coherence with the recorded midi clip so scene movements are automated for the whole song? Is that right or have I gone wrong somewhere here?

I guess this next bit is a post for another thread really, but when trying to sync the ot with live in experience its always a bit off. I’ve not read too much into it, but when you have it slaved does the fader automation move exactly as it was recorded in. Is there any way you check at the beginning of the recording that its doing so?

Final question - are you putting your mutes in via the arranger or via scenes?

#17

Honestly I have waited a lot before trying it, thinking it would be another pain in the ass time with the computer, and I got the OT to get away from the computer ah ah!

But it went quite like a breeze.

OT as a master, sending CCs for AUDIO TRACKS, and sending transport

Live as a slave

Set some MIDI tracks with long clips in the arrangement window

I did not touch anything to configure furthermore

I set a recording and tried the fader, found what parameter (CC48 I think) in the MIDI clip was then having an automation, and all was ready.

Press play with the OT triggers the ableton MIDI clip recording, then you play the song (I only use the fader this time),

and when it’s done, just press play on the OT with ableton playing the MIDI clip and the OT’s fader will (virtually) move.

I think I managed to have separate clips on separate ableton channels automating different OT’s parameters but I think I had some trouble with it, conflicts somewhere, I’m more into the live set prepping and gigging these days than working studio-mode (and it now bores me to death to extract the live matter of the OT into a clinical DAW environment ah ah!)

#18

Honest answer? No, not even close (assuming you know how to use a DAW properly).

mixing tracks on a DAW is far far more powerful. Think about the number of VSTs both native and 3rd party. Side chaining, parallel compression, full spectrum and narrow band EQ, full blown automation, fades, etc etc…

But dont get upset… You can still get a very decent sounding mix out of an OT. The limitations and fixed architecture of its ecosystem means far fewer options but more fun and creativity.

You can bounce the stereo out of the whole song and touch up/master in your DAW or…
bounce each track 1 at a time while muting the rest to create stems in your DAW for more granular processing.

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#19

I personnally find that the more you DAW a track, the less you keep from the original groove and punch of the original… even if you “DAW” it too much inside the OT ah ah!

Don’t DAW, or jus a bit, and keep your mechanics alive :smiley:

And yes the OT can output a really nice sound, for PA’s as for HiFi’s :heart_eyes: But you still need to feed him with good sound sources, you can prep your samples with DAW-work before loading into the CF card to spare some FX slots from these basic EQ or filtering mixing stages that you don’t need to pLock or sceneLock.

#20

So you think although you won’t reach DAW levels, you’re able to reach release standard levels of production internally on an OT?

I’ve been looking into workaround internally for things I accustomed to doing when mixing in a DAW. One thing I can’t seem to find a solution for is a phase check / flip, something like Abletons utility. Have you got any idea on anything like this?

One external workaround I was thinking of was to bounce out the stems pre scene fader work, mix them in Ableton, then feed back to the OT and do all the scene work post production, then bounce as a stereo file and master on Ableton. Might get a bit tedious though :sweat:

I’ve been thinking more and more about this recently, the ot energy of a track might be lost from too much DAW precision. Potentially what I mentioned above could be a way to avoid this, or maybe best to just do it all in the OT. Decisions… :dizzy_face:

#21

Great, thanks for the run down. Ill try this when Im next with my OT, fingers crossed it works !

Don’t suppose you have any idea if recording the scene sliders midi data to a plays free midi track in the OT is possible do you? Not because im against using my computer, im more worried about sync drift problems.

#22

You wont reach DAW levels but if you really want to get perfect mixes then the tedious way would work. Personally, I use the OT for live sketching, instant gratification and not too fussed about the mixdown - it’s quite easy to get 80% of the way there just using your ears without to much post processing.

Personal opinion: don’t let it get in the way of your creativity, OT is IMMENSE fun… :slight_smile:

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