Loopers

The Lounge Other Gear
529

No, I presume that @hausland wants to record the output of other instruments into a looper to created longer loops, but otherwise likes what can be done with audio inside the Octatrack.

So, my suggestion is to use a regular looper in tandem with the Octatrack. The Octatrack, in this case, would not be sequencing the instruments, but rather just processing them.

As I understand it, he’s already using a mixer to submix and route the audio from other instruments in various ways; therefore, depending on how many inputs are required, you could just use the Octatrack as the mixer. That much, I don’t know.

To that end, however, the Aeros has no more inputs or outputs than the Octatrack or the Boomerang, so…

Regardless, there are two main issues to solve: MIDI sync, and longer loops. The 'Rang III provides both of those things. The big one there being sync, and I just can’t vouch for any other device. The 'Rang has rock-solid sync.

Either way, the setup I suggested should work.

Cheers!

530

All good friends. My main setup is as follows:

I have 16 channels of synthesizers going into one mixer, 16 channels of diverse samplers going into another mixer plus a few FX pedals here and there. There’s also at least one vocal mic and a few dynamic mics picking up acoustic instruments on any given day. I direct varying versions of that space ship in ritualised jams that are completely improvised and often responding to the vibes and tendencies in the crowd, so looping is essential to me. The heavy lifting is done by the Hapax (I use it as a midi looper that allows me to add variations with very little effort) and the Digitakt which sequences drums exclusively. After that it’s jam and hope. Occasionally I’ll come across some particular orchestrations that are a result of how the sounds and FX interact in that very moment and also how that moment interacts with what came before…so midi looping is not really the thing here, I want to be able to capture such moments in audio in order to “freeze” something particularly pleasant for a moment. This also allows me to use such a running audio loop to evolve the sounds and manipulate the instruments behind the scenes (on cue) without affecting the performance. The other thing is that with parts on a looper I can come back to moments in a jam that otherwise I couldn’t come back to because the instruments are somewhere else by then, so this adds something to me that otherwise would be impossible with what I do (ie go back to previous „successful“ sections).

The Boomerang is really cool, I agree, but the UI is dated and the price is WAY too high in my book. So while it’s always there as the looper to get somewhere in my mind, it never wins the decision of the moment.

The Aeros in my book doesn’t have enough I/O for what it otherwise can do. But the 6x6 grid thing with the supposedly intuitive UI (and lots of fixes & improvements over the years via firmware updates) is argument enough for me to finally give it a shot and see for myself.

I don’t necessarily need a looper (I rarely layer / overdub on a track), but most samplers I know of - with the exception of the Octatrack - don’t always make it easy to record and playback in time on the fly without much menu diving etc— and when they do, there’s usually a (somewhat limiting) cap on the length of a recording. (Side note: the SP404mk2 would be PERFECT IF it had quantised sampling but all we got so far is the End Snap feature and that‘s not cutting it in that scenario grr)

The OT is pretty much my dream device, I just run out of recording buffer too quickly if I let it do it all in this particular scenario. So I appreciate your input @JohntheSavage, your suggestion does make sense, my setup is just a lot bigger than that and I’ve gotten used to having those options for different timbres handy. The OT in this setup I use as a glitch and texture machine, so primarily to mangle sounds in real time.

I’ll let everyone here know how I like the thing once it arrives and I had some time to get familiar with it.

2 Likes
531

Have you used one before?

Don’t get me wrong, I genuinely hope the Aeros works for you… I’m rooting for it.

For the record though, while I did work with Boomerang directly on the 'Rang III, I’ve no vested interest in selling people on it. It’s just that it remains the single most comprehensive live looping device on the market. Granted, it has no fancy screen, no loop storage, no onboard audio FX—just immediate and intuitive multitrack looping, with ample record time and solid MIDI sync.

But yes, it’s a tad pricey.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing how it goes with the Aeros.

Cheers!

3 Likes
532

I’m currently looking into a flashback delay and loop option pedal or a boss rc30, any experiences?

I like the fashback being delay and loop pedal, but I don’t think it allows using the FX for looping or apply FX over looped signal. I also like the fact of the boss having two different channels to mix and apply inbox effects too.

1 Like
533

Did you receive/try the Aeros Loop Studio ?

I’m tempted, hesitating between it and RC505 MKII for Christmas, but…
I’ve found a way to record / play directly longer loops with OT, Flex, with external midi. Non defined length, quantize or not.

And I didn’t experiment enough Zoia as a looper…

Both are complex to setup.

534

I thought you already bought the 505 MKII when it was released.

I trust you to find a way to achieve things on the OT but IMO it’s a lot of hassle compared to a dedicated looper.

I watched some videos about the Aeros and the lack of buttons and the need to rely on a screen and menu diving is a big no for me to go on stage. And the demo i’ve seen was just about 2X2 loop mode so i can’t even imagine the combinaisons to use for the 6X6.

So far for live use, i did not find better than the Boomerang.

535

Is the OT usable as a live looper for making beats? I would like to have a dedicated device for beatmaking in a live looping setting.

Workflow idea:
set loop length - start recording - play instrument - select new track - play instrument; repeat for multiple tracks, without the looper stopping. A bonus would be recording different loop lengths on different tracks, without stopping the looper.

I have seen Ricky Tinez do something like that with the aeros loop studio and am now debating which looper to go for.

536

If the length is defined (64 steps max), it can be efficient. You can set a different recording length and playback per track.

You have to understand how it works, it is not intuitive, and not ready to work as a looper by default. You can make templates.

More (scary? :content:) details :
You can set the tempo twice slower to double max defined length. You can record up to 8m28s with free ram.
Recordings can be longer than the 64 steps, and they can be quantized. In that case the problem is to match recording length to playback trigs.

OT strength : There are 8 recording tracks and 8 playback tracks (FLEX)
Any recording can be played on any step of any track.
Recordings can be played and processed as soon as recording is started (pitch down, repeat smaller length…), and fully processed when finished (pitch up, reverse, start point, etc). Recordings can be pre-sliced.
These are pretty unique for hardware, inspired by Machinedrum UW, RAM machines.

They added a looper mode, Pickups machines. In that case recorders and playback machines are linked. Caveats : tempo can change if length isn’t defined. Timestretch is always on, so you get a pitch shift instead of pitch. No trigs to sequence the recording.

I prefer to use FLEX.

1 Like
537

Was on the fence to. But it was buggy at release.

Sure ! I am almost there but there is always a limitation.
And I can’t make things simply on OT, I want to use its potential and make crazy stuff, boring to set up.

That’s why I’d want a dedicated one when I’m too tired…

538

My 505mkI (combined with piano/keys) is the perfect master for my Digitakt.
We all know the Digitakt is the real master here and the 505 just repeats what it’s told to.

1 Like
539

The Flashback version with looping (Flashback x4) does allow you to use the delay and looper at the same time (there are no other fx). But the looper is very simple; it doesn’t allow for multiple loops and other fancy tricks. You just have one loop, which you can overdub onto.

I actually like the simplicity of that pedal, it was a great delay to learn on.

3 Likes
540

Do you think this is only possible with the x4? I’m gonna check that see what I can find. Tha is for the heading up :slight_smile:

1 Like
541

You mean, “Is it only possible to use the delay and looper at the same time with the x4”?

I would guess fancier loopers like the Roland 505 can loop and add onboard fx at the same time, but I don’t know for certain because I don’t own a 505 anymore.

Edit: And to clarify what the Flashback x4 does: It will make a loop of the original signal with delay if the delay is turned on when you record the loop. That’s the only way the two features interact in that pedal.

1 Like
542

Boss 505 MKII :
4 serial Input Fx you can record, and 4 serial Track Fx to add once recorded. Possible resampling.
Possible to sequence some fx parameters…

2 Likes
543

Still love my MKI but I lust after the connectivity of the MKII (I could get rid of my MG06). I like using the 505 as master clock for the Digitakt. It solved my DT start/stop problem(s) (blank track). Adjust tempo via 505 and loop away! Got a pair of FS5U’s but mostly use my hands on the 505 directly above the piano.

544

Ok, so it works like a regular looper without fx, in a sense that if the signal has FX applied, it will record it as such, but the effects cannot be applied afterwards…

I think I’m gonna give it a try at a second hand flamma fs21 looper I saw super cheap and see how it goes for now. I guess for recording ideas and without a computer should be ok, plus using it live for recording and overdubbing plus doing transitions :wink:

Thanks so much for the valuable info.

1 Like
545

I received it and immediately the next morning I headed off for a week on a business trip. Just returned last night. Will put it through its paces this weekend hopefully.

My very first impression was „ugh, touchscreen“ lol…but my unit was still on firmware 4.0 I believe. Once I updated to 5.0 and played around with it (much improved UI in 5.0), I started to be really impressed.

You can do parallel or serial looping in either the 2x2 mode or the 6x6 mode. The numbers stand for eg 6x6 mode = 6 „Parts“ (horizontal) - equivalent to Ableton Live „scenes“ - with 6 “Tracks“ (vertical) per part). And you can MIX between serial and parallel loops by LOCKING a track then moving on to the next part. If you eg lock Track 1 in Part 1, the locked track keeps playing when you switch over to Part 2 — so depending on which mode you’re in, you’ll now have up to 5 tracks to loop into in Part 2. Tracks are cool in 6x6 mode especially because you have 6 tracks to keep selected elements of your loop/composition seperate (instead of overdubbing everything into a single track) for on the fly mute/unmutes (see next point :))

Rather than starting and stopping a track within a part, you can mute them individually. So that‘s really cool too, with a midi controller attached, it can be instant mute/unmute per track even in 6x6 mode. Navigation with the 3 + 1 buttons is also quite alright and with a little muscle memory I‘d believe it can be fast and natural. But I see why they have a midi pedal extension for this one.

In terms of syncing and quantisation, there are a few options:

You can SYNC loops by „start & loop length“, just by „start point“ or not at all.

In terms of quantisation, there are three modes: Auto, Quantise and Freeform. I believe „Quantise“ will quantise to a predefined BPM, „Auto“ will quantise either to your first track or to the set bpm and „Freeform“ will allow you to play by feel because it doesn‘t sync and it allows you to have different track lengths (doesn‘t have to be multiples of master loop) with different starting points. I haven‘t experimented with this much yet, but it seems really cool.

Currently, I believe there‘s a 20min max on loop length per song (of a single loop that is). So if you‘re looking for more that‘s it for now.

The device takes an SD card, but if I understand correctly can only handle cards up to 32GB…which is a weird choice but ok.

I intend to hook the pedal into my studio setup on the weekend and then I‘m especially excited to test the reliability of the midi sync.

Will keep you updated as I explore more.

6 Likes
546

@sezare56 because you asked explicitly in the Deals thread, here an update on the Aeros Loop Studio after two nights of playing around more with it :slight_smile:

  • So first up, I‘m currently using Studio One as my mixer. I have all my synths, mics, guitar etc going into my 36in/36out interface setup (2 x Apollo x8, 2x Behringer ADA8200) and then from there via Cue Send (and a line out pair from one of the ADA8200) out into the AUX In (Stereo) of the Aeros Loop Studio. The Loop Studio‘s Main Outs then go back into channels 7&8 of the other ADA8200. Note: the ADA8200 doesn‘t have a notched unity gain position.

  • I mention the audio chain / setup because of the first thing I notice: The Aeros comes in slightly quieter than the actual instruments monitored via Studio One (or even UAD‘s Console). Not sure yet if it is the input levels or the output levels of the Aeros that are responsible for this (eg gain settings on the ADA8200). I suspect it‘s the input levels though. It records super clean and shows a VU for the inputs (and when it clips) so that’s good, just marginally quieterz If I drive the Cue Send to Aeros with +2.6dB, the playback volume appears the same to me as the volume of instrument/mic monitoring. That aside…

  • I‘m growing to love this pedal! I much prefer the 6x6 mode over the more standard 2x2 mode, simply because I like having the flexibility of 6 tracks running in parallel.

  • I actually like having the visual feedback that the screen provides (usually I want the least visual input possible). I can see clearly where a loop‘s starting/end point is (marked with a red line) and when overdubbing it shows the original layer as a faint green in the background with a yellow layer on top representing the overdub. That‘s quite neat, especially in Freeform looping (no quantise loop lengths etc), as it helps me navigate overdub precisely across 6 tracks with different loop lengths and starting points.

  • Navigation of the pedal is good. In the looper view, the switch layout is „Next Part“ on the left, „Next Track“ on the middle switch and „Record/Overdub/Play“ on the right switch. To first initiate the looper, one simply hits „record“ then hit that again to playback (or overdub) the first loop (there‘s a setting to choose between RPO or ROP). In RPO mode, to overdub then just hit the right switch again. To use a new track, just hit „next track“ (middle switch) and if quantisation is on, it will start recording on the next measure OR sync up with the start/end point of your previous loop (depending on what is determined in the settings). To switch to another part (sequential looping), you‘d hit the left switch „Next Part“ ince and then when you are ready the „Record“ switch (right) to launch the next part and record onto one of its tracks. This makes timing transitions quite easy. As mentioned before, tracks can be locked to continue playing on when switching parts. This can be done by long-pressing the left switch which brings up a side menu (which is customisable). Selecting „lock track“ there will lock the selected track.
    To start/stop all, there’s the dedicated upper switch. Long pressing that one will bring up a popup that asks if you want to clear all (can confirm via foot switch OR if you feel confident in never accidentally long pressing the play switch, you can turn off that popup in the settings). Downsides on the navigation: I haven‘t worked out yet how to clear a single track (undo / redo is long-press the right switch), will look this up in the manual. And also, I haven‘t worked out yet how to cycle UP a track list (only cycle from top to bottom). Again, will look it up in the manual eventually. Also, muting a track could/should be easier - from what I can tell so far, it requires bringing up the side bar menu by long pressing the left switch and then selecting MUTE TRACK from the list (scroll wheel can be used with the foot easily though).

  • I‘m really impressed with the different sync & quantise options the Aeros provides. „Auto“ is cool if you just want to jam into the master track and then build from there. „Quantised“ is cool if you‘re eg running midi clock into the looper and want it syncing with eg a sequencer. And „Freeform“ is great for ambient / freeform (lol) /unquantised looping.

  • I haven‘t tried midi sync yet, will be a weekend affair.

  • Aeros Loop Studio can reverse tracks, fade them out or fade to mute. There‘s a sub menu in the Settings menu dedicated only to fade times (fade in / out / to mute etc), so this can be customised to one‘s liking.

  • Looking at the release notes of Firmware 5.0, it seems to me that most of what I appreciate about this looper was added or changed into with firmware v5.0. So I can imagine that if someone got it earlier, their experience could have been a radically different one.

  • The Aeros has two stereo inputs, of which the main inputs can also be used as 2 x mono. So in total, without a mixer, three instruments can be connected simultaneously to the Aeros. There‘s two stereo outputs, which is fine I guess :slight_smile: more I/O is ALWAYS appreciated in my book, but I do like the compact form factor, so that‘s that.

  • Build quality is very good so far. Boot up of the pedal is slightly too long for my taste, otherwise I have no issues with its build or operation.

If you wanna know anything specific, feel free to just ask.

11 Likes
547

IME, 2x2 is only good for people who always stay in 2x2. Otherwise, stick with 6x6 for everything, even when a song doesn’t demand it. The reason being is the difference in how the UI operates between the 2 modes, you’ll develop muscle memory for 1, making the other more error prone.

And yes, having gotten the Aeros a few years ago, and being there each step of the way with firmware updates, it is a vastly different experience than it used to be. It has taken a while to get here, but I’m glad they eventually did. A lot of people ended up bailing (and being very vocal about it). I don’t blame them (I got vocal too when things were looking a bit dark), just glad that I held on.

2 Likes
548

@hausland thanks for feedback/review!
Will read more attentively later.
Concerning slave sync I had positive feedback from a french user on a Audiofanzine forum.
No timestretch, hence no fluctuations as on RC505 MKI, and other RCs I tested. If you disable timestretch in these (Tempo Sync Off, IIRC), tracks playback can stop randomly, so it is buggy and worse.
On the Aeros, the recording is played normally. As far as I understood, there is a possible gap if tempo get slower while playing the loop, which make sense…

Btw, I’d probably use a looper as master, with OT as slave, working really well as live slave recorder from what I tested.

Apparently. I followed evolution on a french forum. Impressive improvements, but I took a long time.

No pitch up/down yet ?
I really appreciate that feature on loopers. Wasn’t present on RC505 MKI, but it is an option on MKII (timestretch by default).
Haven’t seen a demo yet though.

1 Like