That makes total sense.
Yes @Mistercharlie Sampler Alchemy is da shit. Almost too easy to make it sound good.
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What’s the working assumption about how Apple will go forward charging (or not) for Logic on desktop? The famous story since Logic 10 is how it has been “free” but of course it’s just that Logic 10 has had free .1 updates, but previous numbered updates were paid. Because they’ve dropped the number from the software, does that mean any release of Logic 11 (in whatever guise) would still just be “Logic Pro” on the app store?
They probably make more money from a musician by keeping them buying Macbooks, and perhaps the addition of a $600+ iPad plus a subscription for Logic iPad is a better way of encouraging additional spend than a $200 license for Logic 11 at this point. Also, having trained people to expect “free” updates, an upgrade to a new app might be tricky to sell unless it’s a fairly radical re-do of the software.
Where do you think they’re going with it. Maybe turn Logic into a sub? Or do you think the current setup is where it will stay?
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If there is a properly new product, then I reckon it will be subscription only. The iPad version is testing the viability of this IMO. But then again, Logic Pro X and Final Cut Pro being so cheap must make quite a few creative people buy Macs, so I’m sure there’s some thinking within Apple that these pieces of software are loss leaders which encourage much more spending elsewhere. So I wouldn’t say a subscription is ultimately definite, just likely.
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Even if they go subscription, it’ll likely equal years of expenses before you approach the one time cost of say getting any other daw.
I think the subscription model in general makes a lot of sense, since it’ll sustain the development of new features.
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I agreed completely with you here - another reason I am so wary of Mac OS updates, they are cheeky in scrubbing access.
Yeah this is my thinking. Let’s say people used to buy a $1000 Mac back in the days of eMagic. When it became Logic, the software could be up to $500 per version, (but this was at a time that you also used to pay Apple to upgrade your operating system - though they shifted away from doing that too.) So that kinda backs up the hardware ecosystem tie in point (eg: I’ve got a Mac, now I’ve got an iPhone, I might as well get an iPad as well…" oops I just spent $3.5k on computers.) As you say here, Ableton Suite is the same as 10 years as Logic for iPad, even though I assume a desktop sub would be a bit more than the iPad version.
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Yeah, I subscribe to Ulysses and Bear, two tools I use for my writing, it’s about 50Euro per year for both and totally worth it. Been on them since they launched that business model so I’ve probably poured a couple of hundred Euros into their coffers now, but the updates they’re putting out doesn’t compare with software updates a decade ago, which were close to non-existent in comparison.
I’m totally onboard with subscriptions as long as the devs do their part and keep the product constantly moving.
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With all this thread injection going on from my end, there’s no denying when I sit down with the OP-1, I just get shit done lightning fast. And it sounds good, too.
What I wouldn’t give for a hardware interface like that connected to Logic. That would literally be the perfect kit. A Push 3 for Logic, like.
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Or just hook the OP-1 up to Logic, use the OP-1 to make your sounds, and record them into Logic’s loops, use Logic’s FX.
And use the OP-1 keyboard to play Logic’s synths and samplers.
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That has been my dream for the past 10 years.
I’ve got loads of theories about why Apple never did. But it doesn’t matter why : they just didn’t.
I spent the better half of the 2010/2020 years trying many MIDI controllers. Tried the iPad (with Logic Remote). But I guess, in the end, I was really waiting for that Vision Pro thing - which, at that price and in that form is a no-go for now.
I dream the day where I will be able to leave mouses and keyboards aside and edit with a real hands on interface.
There are some great controllers. But none really rocked my world (not even talking about set up, update issues, etc).
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@Heyes and @circuitghost holding down a thread?
I’m in!
I’ll admit I have Logic (and Ableton) and haven’t spent enough time with it (b/c ableton)
but I do love the OP-1F and a more linear workflow. I have a hard time swapping over to Logic because i’m not so familiar with it, certain things seem to get in my way. I trust you two though and we probably think and create in similar ways, so I should spend more time with it.
I like what you’re saying too Heyes about the potential of vision/hands integration into the daw directly, hands-on seems like it could make working in a DAW a lot quicker. There is a lot of potential there and hopefully Apple sees that with Logic (and probably video editing stuff too, I don’t do that but I could see how video editing could benefit from VR).
I am really intrigued with the OP-1F as a controller, and think it would be really cool to have a Logic controller that is more well integrated around the OP-1F / Logic workflow supporting more linear audio recording tools. I wonder if the field could be mapped out to be a makeshift logic controller, I believe every button, encoder and encoder press transmit midi now. Only bummer would be that it’s not purpose built, it’s a workaround so certain labels wouldn’t line up, and basically it implies you wouldn’t actually use the op-1f, only as a controller.
a purpose built logic controller similar to the OP-1F (could settle for larger if needed) could be really great. What would your Push 3 for Logic look like Circuit?
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Joining in this MIDI controller debate and also throwing another “on the fence” comment in for good measure since @midnightoperator94 in in there too.
I’m wading into slightly sticky territory a bit (stick to one thing, learn it and know it etc…) but having trialled Logic 10.8 - wow Sample Alchemy is so good (even on desktop, following it’s initial grounding as Samplr for iPad.) I’ve been looking for a basic sample based synth that can be used for sound design without going into the weeds and this looks to tick that box. Feels really hard to go wrong in any way, and I properly don’t know what I’m doing. That’s my kind of instrument because it encourages exploration - and it’s a stock plugin, which is kinda nuts at this point (I can’t remember the last stock synth with that amount of utility). Plus in general, the stock sounds are just top tier.
Don’t get me wrong there are loads of things I would miss about Ableton. The snappy way you can lob plugins and stuff in there. I think the MIDI & audio editor feels a bit less snappy in Logic somehow, but given I’ve only played with Logic a bit, I would probably get quicker with it. I’m also slightly concerned that the MIDI controllers I have don’t have the same level of control as they do in Ableton, so they would become less important. Need to run some more tests there.
But the big thing I’ve noticed is that it’s maybe a calmer workspace? I’m barely reaching for any 3rd party plugins, since whenever I think of one, I notice there’s an integrated one that is top tier. I’m also faster because it feels like in Ableton I will throw 10 devices into the rack (because you can), where in Logic I will choose from a couple options and leave it there (because it takes longer). Same for modulation - I’ll be thinking about what to modulate and then I’ll use the MIDI FX to do it - and that’s it. Also, I have this thing where I like what Ableton does, but my ageing eyes don’t appreciate having to look at a tiny box in the bottom of the screen to edit stuff. I prefer editing in full screen, so even though I prefer the visual look of Ableton (just) I find Logic easier to work with in that way. Plenty of pros and cons like that…
I’d be slightly hesitant to switch, but damn… I feel I could fairly comfortably ship out a good few of plugins and not skip a beat… Tempting…
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For me, Logic Remote (IPad) and Aerophone Pro are my favorite controllers followed by Maschine Mk3/Maschine Jam combo.
Launchpad Pro is an amazing all in one controller, clip launcher and sequencer for Logic.
However, Logic is the one daw I’m most comfortable using without anything external. Just my laptop or iPad is enough.
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I know a lot of people really rated the Komplete Kontrol/Maschine integration before Logic got its own sequencer and looper.
Luckily I have a LPP, so that’s one to put on the list to check.
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@midnightoperator94 thanks for the kind words.
And what a post!
I agree with you and @holonology on the whole Ableton debate.
Dunno if that’s relevant at all, but I use many DAWs.
As a songwriter, Logic is the most intuitive environment. There’s a crazy amount of good content from the get go. And it works like your average mixing table.
They kept adding (with some success and some bugs too) many features that makes for a really easy workflow : pitch correction (autotune like, melodyne like), MIDI FX (although limited and late to the party), new multi-FX (took them about 15 years to port FL’s GrossBeat into the shape of Beat Breaker), etc.
But I think it really is the closest to the op1 tape. And to your average pro studio. You’ve got your tape. You’ve got your mixing table.
It really lacks a good controller. And I mean, a real, hands on controller. The iPad remote is pretty great. But it’s no match to a real thing.
At times, I dream aloud of an hybrid mixing table - somewhere between the SSL BigSIX and Softube’s console.
Ain’t gonna happen. But one can dream.
Now. As a live musician, it took me about 2 hours to get around what Ableton can do. And it is unmatched.
In the last 20 years, I’ve seen people getting creative both in the studio and live. It’s a creative DAW. Much so in the op1 sense - you’ve got limitations, since it’s not your average DAW. But these limitations are matched with seamless workflow and unprecedented portability from the studio to the stage. You really can write something in the morning and play it live later the same day.
Operator, Max for Live, Racks, MIDI mapping, Scenes…I mean…Ableton is, no question, a DAW for live at its core. And people twisted its arm to make it a regular DAW. Which is cool. Not my ideal scenario, but pretty cool.
And talk about controllers. Any APC 40 mkII would give you hands on to many features at a glance.
I, for one, used this to remix some old songs of mine.
Crazy useful.
I’m gonna skip Pro Tools (my fave for audio editing…but stopped as soon as Avid asked for more money for more bugs), FL and Reason (a beat maker’s best tools if anything), Cubase (Logic for my fellow Windows users), LUNA (perfect if you miss the old ProTools and want some mojo on your bounces) and WaveLab (my Mastering DAW that I couldn’t recommend more). All great DAWs.
But I get the Ableton love.
Had I start my musical journey on a computer, I would have probably ended up on Ableton. But I started on tapes, digital recorders and workstations (boy, do I sometimes miss my OpenLabs Mikko for HipHop and EDM).
Logic really lacks on some critical aspects. It does something to the sound that’s less drastic but less vivid than Ableton, and it lacks any good control solution.
I still use both. Logic in the studio, Ableton in live settings.
Even tho Logic tried hard enough with its LiveLoops - it’s no match. Great studio tool there, but not so efficient in a live setting.
I’m still keeping an eye out for the next best DAW. A Logic/Ableton hybrid of sorts. Not gonna happen. But still. I dream big.
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It might have been lost to the sands of time, but the Mackie Control was originally the Logic Control and was made exclusively for use with Logic 5. So its integration with Logic’s channel strips, tracks, automation, plugins, and screen sets is actually pretty great.
Of course, that was early 2000s. Logic has change a deal since then. As has what’s expected from an “integrated controller” (the Mackie Control is obviously more mix-based than arrangement-based).
And the Mackie Control is (physically) huge. Still, that + a Launchpad can get you pretty far. And mechanical faders are fun!
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My son’s resting with a fever and it’s dark outside, snow coming down. While I was watching him, I wrote this little nocturne in Logic Pro as I listened to his slow breathing -
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A quick recovery to your son! Nice melody btw 
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Here’s hope your son gets better soon enough.
What a lovely vibe.
Different sound from what you usually share - and what a refreshing, moving piece you’ve got there.
Soothing. Moving. Calming.
Well done.
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