I grew up on Logic and Live has never made a lot of sense to me, so grain of salt. But I think the difference between clip- and timeline-based view makes more sense if you think of them as “arrangement” vs “performance” modes. It’s trivial to make loops in both, but in “arrangement” mode you’re placing loops with a precise beginning and end such that they will play automatically, but can’t really launch them spontaneously. In “performance” mode, you can trigger the start and stop of loops on demand, but cannot place them in time.
It’s just like how a long, sufficiently complicated classical piece for piano canonically exists in sheet music (because the composer can’t keep it all in their head and has to write it down). Meanwhile improvisational jazz really only exists in a particular performance (and then because there’s an instrument a musician can press buttons on to make extemporaneous sound).
Both have their uses and obviously the lines get blurred (the performance of sheet music is hugely expressive, an improv performance can be recorded and replayed as gospel). Where it gets… less useful is when you use the extemporaneous tools to make arranged content. Then it starts sounding all samey and you see the grid behind the beats, as it were. But even then, repetition legitimizes. If one’s going to overindulge in one musical trope, repetition is probably the one to pick
This is something I don’t think Apple gets enough credit for. Very subjective, of course, but given Logic is one of the oldest DAWs around, it still feels way more modern than any of its contemporaries or even newcomers like Live. The only thing that feels “younger” to me right now is Bitwig, and that’s legitimately young. I wonder if it, too, will start to feel old when Logic Pro XII is out (and I still won’t have paid for an upgrade? )
Haha maybe good point on the reply above, though. Since I’m not a performer, the track view makes more sense to me no matter how I use it, whereas jamming away with loops is a more session-based style of just coming up with ideas or knocking out a performance.
In which case I have to reluctantly agree, this is where Ableton seems more mature,. with its stronger connection between what you do in Session and how it could translate into an Arrangement without much effort. Essentially, capturing that Miles Davis funk that won’t ever come back again, unless you actually did capture it when you improvised it.
It’s worth checking out Logic’s implementation of this, as (with all my disclosed biases above still in effect) I think their version of clips launching (what they rather cheekily call “Live Loops”) is much better than Live’s when it comes to integrating these worlds.
It’s easy to have both views up side by side, to be playing an arrangement while triggering clips, to drag clips into tracks or tacks into clips, to record clip playback as arrangement (with automation) etc. All while maintaining most of what the Ableton workflow gives you if you want it, right down to plug-n-play support of Launchpads.
The only thing it doesn’t offer, really, are Live’s Follow Actions, which I know are sorely missed by many. I think Follow Actions are a chief enabler of the whole “using clips to make an arrangement” thing discussed earlier, so feel it’s better done in tracks. But it’s no doubt a hole in Logic and reasonable people want it filled.
Anyway, Logic was without clips for so long, it’s easy to overlook that’s one of the things they’ve modernized.
I got a few patches lined up now from Analog Labs, and use Tape, Tape Echoes and that strangely named reverb, all from Softube.
I’ll write a few tracks just with this, see where it goes, and then maybe if those turn out okay, I’ll dive into Portal and Exhale, which both seem a b s o l u t e l y amazing.
I can vouch for Portal.
It’s a fantastic sound shaping tool - although OUTPUT could update it a bit more than it does.
The visual interface is beautiful - but not useful at all. But it is a powerful FX that can easily yield killer sounds.
And once you get it mapped to some physical knobs, it’s a crazy good option ITB for ambiant, eerie and dreamy textures.
Been using it a lot lately.
I’ve always wanted to incorporate vocals more in my music, but not necessarily actual vocals - just vocal-like stuff this one comes close. Explored the Klevegrand stuff briefly, but as much as their demos sound great, I just couldn’t get anything out of their vocal plugs that didn’t sound just cheap. That’s on me, though. Nothing wrong with the tool, I’m sure.
Not a fan of the subscription-based model, but talking about OUTPUT, you might wanna try their ARCADE plugin. There is a folder there called « Distant Voices » that might just fit into your style. Already told myself it sounded, right off the bat, like an overproduced sound from one of your tracks. They also have a more « top line » thing called « Hooked » or something.
The fact that these samples are easily tweakable and ready to play may be of interest here.
And with Logic’s automation lanes, you could modulate the 4 Macros easily.
With the help of the « Autoselect Automation Parameter » function, it’s as easy as it gets. And I reckon you may get some good textures out of it!
Thank you for the advice. It’s really hard to navigate among all the plugs, since there are so many which do similar things. I’m settling for the Softube reverb, as well as their Tape Echoes. Won’t be getting Tape, though I use the trial now and like it, cause I’ll likely go for a Console 1 when I have a few tracks ready and the need is real-ish, and Tape’s included in Console 1.
One thing that I think makes Logic work so well for me, it’s that it’s the same workflow as OP-1, though obviously on Apple steroids.
My pitch down shenanigans I tend to do with the OP-1, to bring down a recording a pitch or two and then re-record it or just use it all on the master, I’m replicating now in Logic by converting a midi track into one long sample - the Quick Sampler - which essentially gives me a tape track. But it’s a sample, not an actual audio track, which is both good and bad.
Are there other ways to replicate this workflow? I got a midi track. I want it converted into an audio track. I want that audio track to similar tweakable options as if it was a sample, with pitch up, down and stuff. My current trick works fairly well, I don’t mind the hassle it brings, but I have a feeling, I can’t be the first one who attempts something like this.
I never work with midi or sequenced tracks, only as sketches - I only use audio tracks, so anything that enhances that workflow is much appreciated.
If you don’t mind Kontakt, there are loads of these. I picked up some older libraries (recommend on sale only for these) from SoundIron (voices of Adey is nice, & Mimi Page is to taste but has some nice ethereal stuff in there) which I like because they are slightly wonky compared to sample pack vocals. Fun to mess around with. In a similar vein there’s also Vocal Colors Brontë (currently $30) which is lush as heck.
The one thing I miss about Arcade is Distant Voices. Man that thing is so nice. I found Hooked a bit tricky to use. I might resub if they put it back on 50% for a year again.
To my knowledge (and various tests I conducted over the years), there are many options to play with audio regions/tracks pitch in Logic.
Depending on what you intend to do, I’d look into the following options :
Varispeed : in a nutshell, it kinda works like a tape tool. It can yield various results when trying to slow down a project. It works on a project level, so fairly global. But one way to use this is to produce a track with audio and MIDI and play with the Varispeed setting. Some great fun there. Not always usable, but a great tool to have in your toolbox.
the Inspector : there, you’ll find settings for both Tracks and Regions. Here, if I got your question right, you will find the Transpose settings. Basically, it’s a Flex algo shortcut for audio regions where you can set some variables (cents and semis for pitch, reverse, fade in/out) easily on the region level. On the Track level, you can play with Flex. Which can yield some great things too.
the Flex tool : If I’m not mistaken, it’s based on Melodyne3´s algorithm. Depending on the source, it will provide a great or a messy result. And it can fairly easily produce artifacts when tweaked too much. But the Audio to MIDI function is great, the interface is intuitive enough and the algo can produce great results (ie. on monophonic basses, I usually play with the drift in/out to produce some great pitch bends effects). It’s easy to play with it and, within the range of an octave, audio is stable enough to be used in a full production. edit it is always a good idea to try out different Flex algo. They all have their own signature sound.
Quick Sampler/Sampler/Alchemy Sampler : the Samplers in Logic are amazing. Intuitive, easy and great with all sources. The way you use it is one of the many ways I’ve seen people use these. Since they ditched the old EXS-24 interface (which was a bit daunting), it has become a real powerful set of tools. And the addition of the Alchemy Sampler is now pushing the boundaries for sample mangling. Great results there. I have yet to find a source that doesn’t play well in these.
Here goes.
There are some other convoluted options not worth mentioning in your case (the most obvious being the « Time and Pitch Machine » and the whole « Environment » window).
Logic truly has some deep tools - so much so that it really can feel daunting and too deep at times. Just writing through the Audio & Pitch options reminded me so!
Here’s hope this helps.
If need be, I’d be happy to get deeper on some of these things.
Sounds like my current approach isn’t all that strange, after all. Though the Flex tool sounds interesting. I’ll venture there next.
I forgot about Alchemy Sampler. Might dig deeper into that before I hit Portal. I used it some on the iPad and it produced some very nice, Chase Bliss Mood-ish results.
If you do need more infos/insights, I’ll be glad to answer. I’m no authority by any means, but I do know my way around Logic (I used to teach about it until two years ago - and it’s my main DAW after all). So count me in anytime!
I’m a little nervous of upgrading logic because my OS is nice & stable (Monterey at the moment) and I don’t want to have issues with stability like I’ve seen in other threads, but I really like the contents of the latest update.
At some point I guess I’ll have to try it and see what happens. I can always restore from a backup if it messes with my setup
Finished my first track with it now, just a one minute trifle. It’s nothing, really, but it still felt good to just say “I’m done”.
I don’t think I’ll be getting a Console 1, actually. Mixing and mastering in Logic is really easy and I kind of like the just moving about with my fingers on the trackpad. If anything, I might get a separate trackpad, a big one, just for that purpose. And I’m sure Softube’s signal chain is great, but most of the shaping I do in my patches, anyway.
if you have one, try using IPad or iPhone with Logic Remote app for mixing. Full screen faders, fx, etc. also a great mpe controller, control surface, etc. Launchpad Pro is another really good controller for Logic.
I’ve finally ditched Ableton all together in favor of Logic Pro. I do lots of archival tape work and Logic is the absolute best for it. So, I got to thinking, why am I using Logic for archival work and Ableton for my own music, especially when I’m finding Logic better for both.
Next up, going to try and route a track or two through the Teenage Engineering TX-6, aux out through a CXM 1978 reverb and back into Logic - partly just to see if it works, and also to compare reverb plugs with the CXM.
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