In my book, lying to people about art is a problem. But, the truth generally comes out sooner or later - whether that’s Ashlee Simpson on SNL, or Motley Crue lip-syncing and using backing tracks live, or what have you. Look, if you want to spend your time and money on fakery, have at it. I’ll pass on The Monkeys and stick with The Beatles instead. Dave Lombardo > Superior Drummer 2…
Edit: corrected “Jessica Simpson” to “Ashlee Simpson” in reference to this manufactured “musician” debacle
my 2c of insight into the debate is that AI is a bigger threat to introverts than extroverts.
The type of jobs that introverts have gravitated toward in the past are those most likely to be overrun.
So unfortunately, the extroverts (potentially of lesser insight, intellect and vision) are likely, through their charm, confidence and charisa, to rule the planet in a few decades and the introverts will be enslaved into a gulag as AI’s prey.
There you have it.
AI and Darwin are going to transform the future of the human race.
Extrovert humans thriving with their AI empowerment.
(unless the introverts cynically decide to masquerade as extroverts and utilise their superior insight, intellect and vision)
i gotta get some solar panels for my mpcs and digitakts
I’ve seen like AI county and pop (and pop country crap) type stuff charting. I’m curious - are there currently AI electronic “musicians” that are making a splash too? Most of the electronic music I listen to comes from the 1990s and 2000s or is so far from mainstream that there wouldn’t be much incentive for a corp like Spotify to fake it.
I just don’t think it’s that serious and I don’t think it’s as black and white as you make it out to be. The Monkees actually sang on their albums and wrote some of their own songs. They were friends with all of the hippest people on the LA music scene and I think if Frank Zappa gives you the seal of approval and appears on your show it’s not exactly a Milli Vanilli situation.
Is the intro to Bungalow Bill a lie since it’s just a single key pressed on the Mellotron? Was it a lie that Clapton actually played the guitar solo on a George Harrison written song? Or that young fans at the time probably weren’t aware of the extent of George Martin’s contributions and just assumed that the Beatles did everything themselves?
The young Generation already relates to these AI Personas. And the young ones are the biggest Market for that. Something has to change there - the youth doesnt know a world without Spotify or Apple Music. Maybe Families should talk to their young ones and show - as well as explain to - them what Music is actually all about. And was - until Spotify and the like ruined it.
Wikipedia: “The Monkees were originally a fictional band created for the NBC television sitcom The Monkees.”
So not a real band originally. The full truth to the extent at which they did or did not play on their records, likely never known. But I can definitely say I’m more doubtful that they did based on how it began. Brian Wilson was a genius but The Beach Boys are notorious for being a disappointment live. Why? Not the same folks as in the studio.
As I’ve said repeatedly in this conversation is for people just be up front about who or what made the music so there is no question. Was Clapton credited? If so, cool. If not, then not so cool in my mind, but everyone is going to draw their own lines. I’m sure there’s a subset of people who don’t give a rat’s behind that AI made a song that was then in turn marketed as a “band” of humans that Spotify pushed to #1 on the chart that they control all in an effort to benefit themselves monetarily. I care though.
EDIT: The Beatles live videos speak for themselves. If you have an amazing live show that The Monkeys performed, feel free to share a link
EDIT 2: Looking on Discogs, Mickey Dolenz is credited as the drummer on the first Monkeys record. I’d bet my left nut that it was actually Hal Blaine
And Neil Diamond wrote I’m a Believer, in case somebody didn’t figure that out from my other comment about Shrek 
It’s also worth noting they auditioned over 400 people to form the band, and then the TV show was a satire that made fun of pop bands and the music industry.
So all together with what you just described, and what the TV show did. They may be pure pop. But contrary to what the other poster said, the Monkees are not at all a parallel with what’s going on with AI slop today and the music industry. And certainly not remotely similar to Milli Vanilli either. Who were nothing but a fraud.
As for me, I’d still like to take the last train to Clarksville one day
4:12-4:50 is the closest thing I’ve seen to a visual representation of a laxative at work.
Except Mickey was actually a guitar player who would mime playing drums at live shows. Smells like a Milli Vanilli fraud to me…Milli just didn’t get a TV show.
So I read today that an AI song made #1 on the Billboard chart. Milli made it to #5. AI wins.
Lol no. Milli Vanilli had three #1 hits on the Hot 100, a #2 and a #4, as well as a #1 album. An AI generated country song made it to #1 on the “Country Digital Song Sales” chart with only 3000 downloads 
So basically someone bought that chart position on a minor irrelevant chart for $3000. Don’t believe the AI hype.
I was going off the UK charts where they had zero. The Monkeys had one tho! 
But this is fun - how long until AI has more #1 hits on the US Billboard charts than Milli? I give it…a year?
Besides upending Taylor Swift, the rest of the list seems pretty weak
If some fake musicians backed by a mediocre TV show and some real great studio musicians can do it, I think AI backed by record labels that don’t want to become irrelevant can do it
Haven‘t read the whole thread, so maybe somebody already mentioned something like that…
I‘m not Anti–AI, I see the technology rather as a creative tool and I think we will see a lot of different AIs, also open source ones, which you can feed with your data and control yourself.
What I think, what is important are (small) real physical spaces in your neighborhood with real people, where you can listen and party to loud music.
That‘s what is getting less and less in my point of view.
Yeah, that’s exactly how it is — but what does the rollout and spread of neural-network tech have to do with it?
In my view, this started happening on a massive scale back during the COVID days.
And it’s not about AI at all — it’s just that people got too lazy to drag their tender little butts out of the house to get their dose of dopamine.
What it has to do with this topic…
People are getting more and more isolated in their homes with their digital algorithmic bubbles and without real connections to other people.
If you want to have a culture, exchange with other people, valueing of art, you need real physical spaces & events.
Just physical media is not enough, I‘m afraid.
And an excellent vocalist, whom the show joked about was bad at playing the drums. And Mickey worked very hard during the first year to learn to play the drums so he could perform with the rest of the band.
When you listen to Last Train to Clarksville, I’m a Believer, and the Monkees theme song, that’s Mickey singing the lead.
So no. Mickey Volenz is the story of a talented musician who quickly learned the drums to fit his new role as an actor and a member of a band.
Milli Vanilli is the story of two non-musicians who perpetuated a fraud, and would have continued to do so until whenever it was they got caught.
There’s a lot of info here in this thread and i haven’t read it all… but it seems there are more interesting potential ways to exploit this tech than recreating / imitating familiar musical structures.
This was of interest to me. Apologies if this is outside the intended boundaries of this discussion.
…but is credited as the drummer on at least the first record when Hal Blaine actually played the drums lol. The label and Mickey lied to the world that he played drums on that record, when in fact he did not. What occurred after that is beyond the point - the initial lie was still a lie.
So, if whoever is behind the AI #1 country song in the digital charts now after-the-fact puts a band together of actual humans to then pretend to be the musicians who recorded that song, you’re A-OK with that?
In almost all genres AI is already better than 99.99% of musicians. No hope imo unless you’re next Beethoven or maaaybe Autechre