It’s been available for the equivalent in a Swedish store since day 1
is this the same Tonverk rubadub sold you erroneously £100 under the recommended retail price? maybe they’re just recouping their costs?
i’ve seen this a few times over the years, early adopters irate that their complex music machine isn’t perfect from the get go. it’s been the case since the md (and every single machine since). elektron listen, refine, react and resolve. patience is required.
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No i cancelled that and then paid for another one a few days later and paid £1199
Wish i listened to my self and resisted 
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While software might be more complex (aka, has more features packed), I think I do not agree it is more difficult or harder to test, it should be easier actually. If you take Tonverk as an example:
- The codebase of Tonverk is written in Rust, which has a much better toolchain as let’s say C/C++ or other older platforms. Testing framework is even built-in.
- The operating system of Tonverk is linux. Which means it’s possible to run and test (parts of the) software on your pc/computer in an emulation / docker container.
- Which also means automated testing is 100% in scope for all operations: You could write tests for them. Relatively “simple stuff” like copying and pasting trigs in the sequencer would have been caught by the testrunner which can run at any time in any CI environment, not just by testing on the machine itself.
But now I’m into "It should be simple to code" territory 
Either way, it’s easier to write tests for software nowadays so it should be easier to test too.
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Ha, yes and no I guess - definitely drifting off topic but the real world always throws up shit that wasn’t accounted for, or was accounted for but was impacted by something else in an unexpected way.
I work at software company with 3 dev squads, each has their own QA - the software has been in constant production for 10 years and there is still a list of bugs as long as my arm, and each release adds to that list. Bug-free deployments are an unreasonable expectation IMO - even if it would be better everyone 
This is a fair question, and makes purchases like this a bigger grey area than maybe they should be, and as a consumer you shouldn’t have to be calculating this stuff.
I agree with you that ultimately if there is an issue it should always be between the retailer and the manufacturer.
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Well its been delivered back so it hasnt got lost so thats a good thing 
so i guess i will know the outcome soon enough
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You should not worry about these kind of things actually, you can just say it’s not working properly.
They answered to you:
Ok, just to let you know, opened is usually subject to a -10% restocking fee to be deducted from the refund
So I see room for “negotiation” here actually. You are not sending it back just because you don’t like it, but because it crashed several times (and you don’t like ). But if you say the crashes are the main reason then I would say you are entitled for a 100% refund.
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But does it matter? Can you run the tonverk firmware in another machine? Can you use the tonverk without firmware, or instal your own? They are components of a unified product. If the firmware that comes with the boxed product is defective, the product is defective.
I don’t really care about the tonverk in particular, but I am reading this thread, and I can only feel ashamed of my profession. How could we software engineers get to a state where over promising, under delivering, and routinely shipping broken firmware is the norm?
Because the advice to wait a couple of months before getting a new piece of gear is very sound advice. Same goes for software, OS releases, you name it. It’s not an elektron problem. It’s an industry problem.
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Sorry for another maybe obvious question, but are you guys enjoying the insert effects?
I think the reverb, chorus and delay sends sound beautiful but I haven’t found as much use for the inserts. It seems like most of them are focused on glitching/degrading sound quality, and I’m not sure but I can’t seem to get the insert chorus to sound all that…chorusy.
edit: I also haven’t tried anything bus specific yet
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It doesn’t no which is my point. My mother couldn’t even tell you what firmware is - it’s not a consumer perspective that should need to exist.
One clarification here, because it’s important: this is not new.
What is new is frequent updates and longterm product support. Software has always been shipped with bugs, the difference 30 years ago is that you had to live with them. I’d argue that this puts the industry in a better position than it ever was. Complex systems often require maintenance and fixes. Hell you can’t even by a new house without it needing a bug-fix.
I’d rather focus on how people support products than their ability to release them without errors. This is the biggest difference between a corporation buying software and a consumer. We don’t get any kind of SLA. You could buy something and it never get fixed - that’s a consumer law that needs resolving in the modern age.
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I 100% agree,
Defective firmware === Defective product
At least from a consumer point of view.
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For what it’s worth, price at sweetwater was 1599 USD when I bought it and has stayed that way.
i already saw Bstock there.
Curious if they will pay the difference to customers who paid full price. we are still in 30 day return periods
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You are 101% right this is not a new phenomenon. But I do think the possibility to easily patch stuff from day one on, gives a very perverse incentive to not ship a working product on day zero.
The industry may be in a better position as you say. But are the people? Is the world? This is the main source of my shame. That we manage to make a better world for “us” but not for “everyone including us”.
I could start ranting about software development practices. But let’s not turn this into hacker news.
I’m following this thread with interest cause I think it’s about time we on the receiving end of this mess start fighting back!
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Why would they do that?
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to not handle tons of returns and reorders. I paid 1400€, no way am i keeping my unit
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Have you ever bought anything in your life?
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This is undiably true also - increasing pressures from investors, and even customers lead to complacency.
One of the trade-offs in improving that of course is that we wait longer for products (which then run the risk of becoming redundant or out-dated) and ultimately pay more for them. The latter point is probably the more significant one for the customer - are you willing to pay more to have more testing and investment in the product up-front to ensure that it has fewer (never none at all) bugs on day one? Some might but that is a significant marketing challenge.
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Seeing Thomann is selling the OT MKII for E1630 (!) now I guess there’s a bit of wiggle room with the TV 
Best of luck, in my opinion you should get a full refund under distance selling regulations and anything less is unjust.
Thanks for the heads up on Rubadub, I had them down as being good and was considering spending £1200 there this week but I will now take my money elsewhere and avoid them in future.
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