Hi,
I’m owner of A4 and MD, and now with Syntakt I’m trying to understand how it works the kits… because I see in manual has different behaviour from big ones. Then, if I understand, you could save a kit, but this kit isn’t independently from the pattern, because you can load kits as on MD or A4…Actually kit or pattern is mostly the same thing, just kits is related to sounds and pattern is related to sound and sequence information.
So, do I understand good?
I don’t know much about the Syntakt but I do know it doesn’t have kits (most requested feature after s_ng m_de)
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You don’t have kits. You have a sound pool. You load preset or saved sounds into this, and these are the sounds you can sound-lock between. But pools are part of a project, which also contains your patterns etc. There is no way of saving a pool on its own.
You can, which is what I do, create template projects, which have maybe 30 or so stepping-off sounds in the pool you can use to start new projects. You load the template project, save it under a new name and go from there.
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On the Digi series, indeed Pattern and Kits are saved together.
You loose the ability to share a Kit across several Patrerns, but in the other hand it simplifies the workflow a bit… For instance, Fn+Yes save both at the same time, Fn+No reload both.
You just have to get used to it.
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I don‘t have st ( a4 1, ot and dn) . But yes, in the st manual there is a new complex thing different than both a4 and dn. Under 9.6. (pattern menu) whole pattern, kit or seq data operations (clear, save to proj, reload) are possible.
That’s why I can’t stand the digis.
It’s not fun when you sequence it externally. Or simply the joy of trying a pattern with another kit.
MD, AR, and A4 rule when working the old school way.
That said, i guess this workflow is quite convenient for songwriting.
Yes I’ve read that, just trying to understand how to use, because I couldn’t used as I use on my A4, but seems same as in digitakt.
So it’s a bit confused to me reference to kit on manual and on machine but in practice is like it doesn’t exist because it works as a digitakt… How could I take advantage? What’s the context supposed to use?
Good info and advice here. It is all about the ability to use sound lock to change sounds on any note.
Until you run out of 128 projects. And then you have to start stuffing around with dumping out and in.
Yes, confusing and/or complex and/or interesting. Similar: reload kit on a4 don’t affect the plocks ( part of pattern)
Correct ! I off-load projects often. I’m still in the mucking about fase with the syntakt, but with my other elektron boxes I save them on my PC with a backup. Not just because you run out of space but when using multiple devices by different manufacturers it can get very confusing what projects and patterns I intended to go together. So I make folders containing the digitakt project, the digitone one, synth patches etc.
Why do you have a problem with the lack of kits on the digis when sequencing them externally anyway? You can set up each pattern as a different set of sounds without any sequence data. Wouldn’t that be just like a kit?
I do understand the critique of some people that changes across patterns aren’t maintained on the digis, but this shouldn’t be a problem when sequencing them externally, as you don’t have to change patterns then.
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In reality, there is a separation between Kit and Pattern. It’s obvious in the Pattern menu […] : hit “Save to proj” and you’ll see the ability to save only the pattern data or the Kit. So Kits and Pattern exist as two different concepts/objects within the machine.
You can even reload only the Kit or the Pattern.
The fact that Fn+Yes / Fn+No act on both + most of all the fact that you can’t save a Kit for later or shared use between Patterns make the distinction kind of vanish on the UX level.
So you’d better forget there is one within the machine, I guess.
Still, there’s hope we’ll see some change in this area in the future, as the concepts really are separated in the machine’s core.
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Yes I know it, but I told about Syntakt not Analog Four. In Syntakt doesn’t work as you described.
If they are separated, why doesn’t work as A4 (for example). Is it a problem around the power of the machine or something?
Anyway, I’ve just understood that in practice works as Digitakt, so even you could save or reload kits, they are linked to pattern not separated as other machines.
Imho I think the situation you’ll potentially prefer save/load kits instead patterns is pretty marginal such as kits works now.
I think it was a decision to make the UX less convoluted/more straightforward, in a global effort to make Elektron workflow more natural.
Dealing with separate Kits means a dedicated UI, but maybe also additional buttons that a compact format such as the Digi series’ made rare.
I personally love this format, and think the tradeoffs haven’t made it less interesting than the big flagships’. Better ratio power/footprint.
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You’re almost right.
Firstly, you can’t switch kits while a pattern keeps playing. That’s a major drawback as I find myself sequencing kit changes a lot, in a middle of a pattern, of just to try new sounds on a pattern.
Secondly, the ‘one pattern = one kit’ approach works, in theory.
But in practice, I find that there is a great chance that you save stuff by mistake :
- instead of reloading the temp pattern, it’s easy to save it.
- if you leave some patterns changed, it’s easy to forget it, and later save your project.
Whereas in the AR, you can enable ‘kit reload on change’ that ensures you to be able to recover your original kit safely each tie you recall the pattern.
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If you sequence the digis with an external device you can change patterns any time you want, manually, if you turn transport receive off. With transport receive enabled, just turn the pattern length (or change length) to 1 step, so you can you can program pattern changes on your external device that will take place almost immediately.
For your second point, you could keep a back-up pattern/kit for every kit you want to use (eg pattern 1, backup on pattern 9, 2 & 10, and so on), in case you mess up with saving. I know, not as convenient as having actual kits as on the AR, but this gets you pretty close.
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I’m aware of all these things, but still, it annoys me too much. Maybe I’m too paranoid. Also, I tend to use a lot of gear on stage, and if all the gear was as risky to use, that would be unbearable.
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I can imagine kit-lite support on the DT/DN/ST boxes, where a new key press variation on the usual pattern switching, or maybe a mode in configuration, would cause an “ignore” of the changes in sound sources and ONLY switch to use the new sequence data in the selected switched-to pattern.
I’m sure it’s a more complex from an internal programming perspective to deal with UI edge-cases and note data vs sequenced control data, especially on the ST where the sounds sources and their parameters are so variable.
But maybe there’s a seed of an idea here, where a “kit” is still part of a pattern, but it isn’t set in stone that switching to a new pattern also forces a switch to the new pattern’s sound sources and settings.
Of course, you would have to be more consistent in how your patterns were laid out track-wise, but that’s common if you’re looking at this in terms of kits anyway.
Not full kit support, of course, but just an idea that might yield some effective kit-like persistence in sounds when switching patterns while performing live.
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for me, it’s a salvation from changing my kits and thus, patterns which have them
all elektron have messed workflow, only syntakt is exception
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