Hydrasynth from ASM

The Lounge Other Gear
#1230

Good thought. It was something i considered as well, before i ordered the Osmose, and decided it would not be a problem. First off those two synths are in totally different (digital) sonic realms —plus to me (and I recognize this is all a matter of taste) the HS sound is way above being just OK to the point of being essential.

Secondly while there is overlap with the keyboards, both having polyphonic aftertouch and MPE, they should play differently enough to offer options for different applications. I can envision, and this will be a matter for experimentation, using these two together in all four combinations.

For instance the extra dimensions on the Osmose keyboard should map into extra parameters on the HS. And the extra front panel controls on the HS, through the mod matrix and CC output, should be useful controlling the EaganMatrix. I know i have a lot to learn doing this, but it should be fertile ground for experimentation.

But who knows ? I plan to find out.

ASIDE: I will need to go USB MIDI between the two, P.A. and MPE both can generate a lot of data.

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#1231

I’ve been listening again to HS demos, and despite listening to a lot when it first came out, I am liking it a bit more. More importantly, when you factor in its qualities as a player and how a player can modulate the sound, it seems more worth it as a package. It’s like my Pulsar-23, which doesn’t have any particular killer sound or to-die-for modulation, but is a package deal for a real-time player. I take back what I said in the other thread, though, about the HS being an inexpensive tider-over. I had the desktop unit price in mind, but the keyboard makes it moderately expensive. I still might go for one now and keep it with the Osmose a while–you make good points how the Osmose and HS can work together in one setup. Then I can see about liquidating some of my excess keyboards. To tell you the truth, I’ve always had the same reaction to the Eagan Matrix sound: just OK (compared to other resources I already have), but with unique qualities as a player. I never went for a Continuum, and not just because of the price, but the Osmose has more appeal to me as an interface to the Eagan Matrix.

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#1232

I agree, even though I don’t have a HS.

On paper, the two should complement each other very well. HS for sequenced/arpeggiated parts and anything with automated modulation. Osmose for manually manipulated tones.

For composing/songwriting, this combo may offer a faster workflow for putting together a track, as you could play along on Osmose while HS’s parts are being sequenced/arpeggiated, instead of having to lay down a track then overdub your manually played part. It does make a big difference when you can try out various ideas for a lead, bass line, etc. against another synth that’s playing real time.

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#1233

If you’re going to play the Hydrasynth via MIDI with a fancy controller then understand that complex sounds add in latency. For eg. When playing via MIDI 5 pin din and local off , the synth will have around 20ms latency on a complex sound using 2x oscs and 2 mutants per osc. Around 5-8ms on more simple bread and butter preset type patches.

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#1234

Good point !

For us less technically oriented, one ms is one foot of sound propagation — so 20 ms is the delay for a sound to reach you, say from an acoustic player sitting 20 feet away from you (approximately).

Of course this is less important for a non-percussive patch, as the attack is slower. A lot of what I play, has slower attacks. Plus we do naturally compensate some for this, i’m a long term wind instrument player, so in that case i just naturally start the “ta” just that fraction early. Think of how an acoustic piano player starts the movement of their finger just that right amount early to put the sound on the mark — the hammer takes time to travel too. Sadly when i play piano it’s very humanized !!

I’d like to be able to measure this myself Wickfut. I suppose i could rig my mixed signal oscilloscope and look at the MIDI channel somehow across from the audio channel. I sure wouldn’t trust my computer, without some real investigation on it. But my ‘scope is made for this. It’s been a while since I took a physics lab.

I’d also turn on “Snap Mode” on the HS voice, i’ve listened to how that affects the audio response.

#1235

Snap mode is like osc sync , ie it starts each wavefrom at the zero position. It doesn’t lower latency. It just makes the attack of the sound slightly more pronounced.

I’m not well knowledged on scopes but how would a scope show you latency? It isn’t a waveform, it’s a delay of pressing a key to hearing the sound.

To put this into some perspective for you. I can make bass sounds on this synth with the attack time set to zero and playing say a sequence at 140-150 bpm 16th note bass notes it will be silent due to the sound not being able to trigger in time before the next note in the sequence. Modulating Mutants dry/wet seems to alter the complexity of the patch which makes things worse as it modulates the latency.
I’m just surprised that people aren’t up in arms over this, I noticed a few people claiming the sync latency was bad further up the thread and a few a while back on GS forum, but hardly a murmer from anyone. I’ve messaged ASM support over a week ago and not received any reply.

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#1236

A major function of an oscilloscopes is for measuring time. You’d look at the MIDI note-on completing and a percussive audio signal on two separate channels and measure the time between them with extreme accuracy.

#1237

latency
latency2742×1466 561 KB
latency2
latency21172×714 154 KB
latency3
latency33306×732 424 KB

There you go. Time is in Samples.

top image is latency tested between different synths with the same MIDI interface.

middle is Hydrasynth basic sound vs behringer crave both synths triggered together from same keypress

bottom is 16th note step sequence triggers with lots of modulation adjusting mutants so you can see how each note triggered moves in and out of sync.

This is all via MIDI din cables. Scale is around 1000 samples = 22 ms @ 48khz

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#1238

I went for a desktop unit. When I said I thought the sound was just OK (above somewhere), I should have said that’s strictly in terms of what the HS can add to resources I already have and the ways I want to use them. Same with the EaganMatrix. I think they both sound really good, but I don’t need either one in any particular way. The HS’s new microtuning puts it over the top for me. I guess I’m missing out on the quality keybed, but the space- and money-saving desktop unit seems a compromise that fits me really well at this time. I figure if I absolutely love the thing, I can polychain a keyboard model later.

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#1239

You own the SLM3, right ? (The 49 or the 61 ?) That seems an ideal pairing with the HSD, especially now with the new firmware with all the CC support. There are loads of controllable parameters on the HS, plus the custom CC control through the mod-matrix, that opens up a universe for various SLM3 templates.

Interesting to compare the HSK with a HSD SLM3 combination. Having a traditional sort of sequencer is balance against the loss of a polyphonic aftertouch keyboard. Doing things like splitting the keyboard, especially with the 61 key version, and adding another synth next to the HSD is an attractive option too.

There are quite a few other wrinkles that the SLM3 adds to the features of the combination, it would take some time to describe them all.

Owning both the SLM3-61 and the HSK i must say the SLM3 is a step down in the feel and action of the keyboard (imo). That’s not to cast shade on the SLM3, it’s just that the HSK keyboard is so exceptional. The same with the feel of the controls, though the SLM3 is good in this regard too. The sliders on the SLM3 are a good addition, i like having sliders for controls.

I’m thinking now of the shortcomings i find with the HSK that i might solve using the SLM3. First thing that comes to mind is having a fast way to change the arpeggiator phrase. I think i could map specific phrase selections to the SLM3 buttons in various templates.

Hmmm, what about using the HSD CV outputs together with the CV outs on the SLM3 to control modular gear ?

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#1240

@Jukka It’s a pity the SLM3 has no PolyAT keyboard. For the rest it’s a great keyboard with a lot of features. A SLM3 having a Hydrasynth keybed would be heaven :slight_smile:

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#1241

playing the modular using the HS arp is amazing. Especially when you start modulating steps, note length etc

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#1242

I take it you plan to use an Osmose as a controller for the desktop? Your comment reminded me of a comment on the Osmose thread, then I realized it was probably you.

The addition of microtuning support intrigues me as well.

I’m not that worried about the reported MIDI latency on the Hydrasynth. If I want to play fast virtuosic things (yeah, right), I’ll just use the Osmose’s own multi-engine, for which I do feel quite a bit more enthusiasm than what others have expressed on that thread. The other point about modulation on the HS falling out of sync due to MIDI latency doesn’t bother me either - there are fairly well-known MIDI latency compensation features on DAWs like Ableton if working w/ a DAW and other tricks I’m sure. If all else fails, I’d be comfortable with just manually dialing in the desired speed and using my ear to judge.

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#1243

The lengthening of the LFO steps to 64, and allowing you to easily dial in notes for the steps, plus the new CV voltage levels for interface Buchla equipment, are all great additions in the new firmware that improve the CV interface too.

#1244

Worse is Novation not having polyphonic aftertouch on the Summit keyboard, having it only be able to receive p.a. with the synth, same as on the Peak, is a missed opportunity. But a good response p.a. keybed is hard to do well at a good price, that’s why the Osmose will be important. Perhaps it will break open that feature in new equipment.

We’ll see what ASM does in the future, but a super jazzed up controller keyboard might make a lot of sense for them.

ADDED: Shall everyone take a yellow happy face logo here ?

#1245

Perfect Circuit has an upcoming livestream w/ Glen Darcey and Daniel Troberg of ASM. Perfect opportunity to fire off your questions/concerns and put them on the spot :wink:

https://www.perfectcircuit.com/events

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#1246

ASM is super strict about not talking about any future products until they are ready to ship, but i am looking for them announcing something pretty soon. September will be one year since they announced the HS. Seems longer ago than that.

I’ll check out the Perfect Circuit event, they’ve done stuff with them before, Glen lives in the LA area so at the least it’s convenient.

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#1247

Thanks for mentioning these. Brutal times for East Coast but looks like they’ve archived them. That one with Danjel from Intellijel is on my list!

#1248

Yeah, but it’s been in a different, quarantined space for six months, where I have restricted access for another few weeks. Also, my current space is much more cramped, so I want to see how well I can make do with just the LinnStrument as a controller. All my modular is currently in the restricted space, but being more compact, I can eventually bring selected modules to the HS if I want. I’m currently seeing the HSD as a complement to a Typhon and software VST’s. Oh yeah, and perhaps my little Jupiter-Xm as a backup keyboard, but with all the raving about the HSK over the Novation, who knows what will happen in the future…

Right, and then there’s that! It remains to be seen how well the Osmose will work out as a utility controller. If I have any sense, I won’t even consider a HSK until after the Osmose gets here. In all cases, I still won’t have a 61-key in the smaller space (two in the other space), which I’m also trying to adjust to handling via LinnStrument, which is looking very promising.

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#1249

Trovarsi and Corrie of BBoy Tech Report did a good job hosting this, lots of stuff on the 1.5 release, plus other good stuff too. Plenty of tips and tricks as a part of this. I can see how this release really fills out on their original vision of the HS as a generative machine. Interesting too to get detail on why they decided to not include a sequencer. Good decision, imo.

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