Hardware / Interface IO Questions

The Lounge Other Gear
#21

Yah the lack of outputs can be a bit of a pain. But not all is wasted.

It’s not uncommon for EDM pros to do a fair bit of layering to get a nice big phat polished sound (Or interesting complex sounds). That trance piano might actually be made up of 3 different pianos plus a few basic waveforms all filtered to bring out the best bits. You could try the same sort of thing with the virus.

As for EQs, they are merely for maintaining separation (which can also be achieved with panning and levels), getting rid of unwanted frequencies and maybe boosting the nice bits. Technically you don’t need to eq every single track - especially since you’re not working with a recorded instrument. Careful sound design inside the Virus that pays attention to filters, levels and panning should need very little “mixing” by the time it gets to the mixer. So you could send several sounds out from the Virus “as is”. (I generally do very little with the background stuff except for a bit of levelling). You may even find that less is more when it comes to signal processing since overprocessing can even lead to a more anaemic sound if you’ve cut too much.

As such, I would save the first 4 outputs of the virus for your most important sounds (eg synth leads) that need the most attention and the last 2 for background stuff.

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#22

how is the circlon? just something for experimental stuff or a good aid to make Music?
it is quite expensive but i find the octatrack not 100% satisfying in Terms of sequencing other gear.

#23

@rex_mundii thanks for the info mate, much appreciated and interesting to know. Do you think buying another virus or a different synth with more outputs (to go to 12) would solve the issue or is it just to overkill to look in that way? Could you just, like you said separate with levels and just bounce as is through the main virus output or do you need times where you need those single sounds available to tweak individually? Do you personally use a mixer for things like this and use the individual outs?

@yentz really decent mate, nice workflow. Octatrack is around the same price more or less price, just no waiting list, I was lucky on ebay with finding mine. Still a learning curve like the OT but Cirklon imo much more powerful sequencer but lets face it, they are two very different things when it comes down to it.

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#24

if you need many Audio ins, buy (for esample) a RME Fireface + 2 adat AD converters like Behrinnger ADA8200, that gives you 12 + 8 + 8 = 28 audio ins in 44.1/48 khz or 20 audio ins in 88.2 / 96khz.

but be sure to have good midi clocking when running external sequencers. I finally orderd USAMO for clocking the ext. machines to Logic X.

#25

I saw some good techno live acts working with cirklon, Benjamin Damage (50 Weapons) for example. Must be a killer machine.

#26

No worries.

Personally I’d call multiple viruses a wee bit overkill since I don’t use many synth layers - but each to their own. I suppose multiple synths would be useful for recording live jams and whatnot. Best thing you can do is have a coupla tries at mixing an entire song inside the virus - you’ll start to get a feel for how far you can push it. Maybe do this BEFORE you start spending money on more gear. As for my own recordings, it changes. At the moment I have a Montage, which has a dedicated mixer section, and an OT.

Back when I had a Virus I was perfectly happy to send out multiple layers at once - but some sounds needed their own channel (eg bass). As for mixers, I prefer to use them for mixing pre recorded multitracks going out of the DAW. I also get lazy and send busloads of stuff down the same stereo mixer channel with nothing but a gain plugin for volume control, and eq as little as possible (Sold the mixer in the end).

Last words: Play it by ear, don’t be afraid to experiment, if it sounds good then you’re fine.

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#27

the ada8200 does deliver really decent sound. probably the best behringer product. i would prefer the converters over my focusrite scarlett 18i20.

#28

OK, I went to the BPM show at the NEC yesterday in the UK. I took a long two hour session and spoke to the guys from Allen and Heath regarding the QU32 Mixer which looks great and is such a fast workflow.

My options at this moment in time are either a Midas F32 which I can buy second hand from a seller for £1200 or the QU 32 for just over £2000 brand new with 3 warranty from BAX. I want to buy this week asap.

I suppose the real issue is here the sound of the preamps as the Midas is analogue and the QU32 is Digital. I have not heard what the Midas sounds like. I look into the workflow of the two and it looks so much easier with the way you can recall your levels, eq settings, scenes, effects etc on the QU32, If I went down the Midas route I would be manually having to recall these settings by way of making vast notes which is a little bit soul destroying knowing that once you have these settings in place that there is no way to get these back in a fast push of a button. I can save these all on the QU32 as there is 99 saved for scenes so recalling settings for a number of tracks is a breeze, something the Midas is not capable of doing.

With the QU32 you can record multitrack direct out into Logic via USB, the Midas is multitrack through Firewire so in that sense they are both pretty decent and what I would be looking for once I’m happy with the mixing side of things.

For someone producing electronic dance music what would be my best option in other peoples views? I’m unsure which route to go down here and would welcome peoples thoughts. I would like the analogue sound of the Midas (even though I have not heard it first hand) but my feelings at this moment in time are pushing me towards the better control of the QU32.

#29

Hey, analogue summing is generally much preferred and it sounds a lot better imo. Can the AH do that or is it all digital once it hits the input?
Out of those two, midas

#30

This is what is quoted from the website:

“Qu-32 features thirty-two AnalogiQTM digitally controlled
preamps with advanced zero-crossing detection and a padless 1dB-step
gain stage, which have been closely allied to the DSP for optimal gain
accuracy and audio transparency. The analogue signal is captured by
high-class, low latency 24bit analogue to digital converters, and are
matched to 24bit digital to analogue converters to deliver the required
high quality output. The AnalogiQTM preamp design has been
refined to offer superb transparency, minimal distortion and an
ultra-low noise floor, with a warm, musical sound that is missing from
some digital consoles.”

Also looking at Midas M32 now, thoughts anyone?

#31

Bare in mind that recording through the Midas into Logic wouldn’t be analog summing. That would require another step of sending stems from Logic back through the mixer, and recording the 2 track result.

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#32

The features I appreciate most on the Qu series are:

Gates on everything. This makes for incredibly low noise
Ducker. A pseudo side chain when used with the compressor.
Versatile FX. Can be send/return or insert. Highly flexible.
Computer-Free recording. Direct to USB thumb drive.
Programmable Soft Keys. Customize them for what you need most. Mutes? Rec arm? Mix select?

2 Likes
#33

I’m just trying to actually work out what analog summing is. I’m going to have my synths, drum machines controlled by a cirklon. All the outputs of the synths, drum machines will be fed directly into the desk so wouldn’t that be summing as everything is going straight through?

I’m now also looking at the Midas M32, isn’t that better than the QU32, with the control of the QU32 but has the proper analogue sound that i’m looking for like on the Midas F32?

#34

Keep a eye on Metric Halo, very soon the next reincarnation.

#35

Doesn’t answer any of my questions above though?

What is metric halo, and who is the manufacturer?

#36

I am going to upgrade to Metric Halo:
http://mhsecure.com/metric_halo/

Right now i am using Apogee Symphony with 16 I/O but i don’t want to buy a new chassis to keep the system up to date. So i am going to switch to Metric Halo and my pro audio supplier has a special deal for me :slight_smile:

The DSP plug ins of Metric Halo are perfect for EQ and dynamics.

#37

Doesn’t really float my boat to be honest, I was looking at UAD apollo 16’s a while back, as I have quite alot of there plugs. Two of those would set me back £5000+

I think for what it’s worth it is better to go straight for a mixer now though.

It’s just pretty hard finding the right one, I want an analogue desk but with the convenence of recalls, scenes and similar settings like on the QU32. I don’t really want to be taking notes, I want a quick workflow. I would look to spend under £5000, ideally £2000-£2500. I’m open to suggestions.

I want something that is going to work with electronic music, bedrock, john digweed style.

#38

Someone on gearsluts brought up something that I didn’t know about, here is what he said:

"The distinctive preamp characteristics of your choices will not be
evident with line level inputs from your synths. You’ll be running your
synth-connected preamps at/near zero gain, and in general, preamps are
remarkably transparent when run that way.

Therefore, your decision should center around workflow advantages;
definitely giving advantage to the digital mixing boards. Synths and
acoustic drums have a large channel count footprint, thereby again
giving advantage to any solution at enables 32-channel capability into
the computer. "

Thoughts welcomed

#39

digital mixer and a nice analog mic pre front end?

#40

The whole reason I left Metric Halo was because I was tired of waiting for their next generation, over the last 2 years. I was a happy MH user for more than a decade. However, the rest of the industry is, unfortunately, pulling away from them.

The Qu-Pac has been everything I wanted my previous 2x2882 + 1xULN2 setup to be.
USB compatible, with stand-alone recording capabilities, and loads of solid zero-latency DSP processing.

Sure, their interfaces offer a few more dB dynamic range, and if those few dB is what’s keeping your music from being great then more power to you. But in the time I’ve waited for an update that never arrived, I recorded two albums and a few EPs with the Qu-Pac.