Generate Midi Clock from Audio or Midi Notes

Elektron Gear
#1

Hi! :zebra:

Recently i decided to get more into (more or less) analog Dub (no, not Dubstep) mixing.

I bought the “Cymatic Audio Live Player LP-16” to have individual audio tracks (so a multirack song) linked to my mix desk, without the use of a computer.

So far, this works nice… but it could be even cooler, to also have my Octratrack and Digitone playing in sync with mit Multitrack-Song.

The LP-16 has a Midi Out, but wonder why… it has no Midi Clock out.

It has a Midi In, but it is only 100% a “midi thru” and you can`t transport control the LP16.

It would be so awesome to sync the Octrack to my multitrack song… but how?

The not cheap “E-RM Multiclock USB” can do something like receving midi clock from a analog tape deck where you recorded something like a special click track… this could mean, that this could work also with the lp16… but i`m not really 100% sure.

But the more important question…

Is there any other not so expensive way of “generating” or “extracting” a solid midi clock from

a) midi notes (for example a simple 4x Kick Drum 4/4 pattern)
or
b) from audio

to sync to Octrack with the Lp16 (standalone mode, of course it is possible when i would use a laptop, wich i don`t want in this setup)

I heard of these awesome devices like the “MIDI Solutions boxes” and the “RK-002 SMART MIDI CABLE” … but im totally inexperienced with these and im not sure if there is any chance that they can do the trick?! :thinking:

#2

A Monotribe fitted with midi out can do this, just record a click track with 8 or 16 pulses per bar, each pulse with a duration of 5-10ms then send it into the Monotribe sync input and it will spit out midi clock.

Electribe2 should also work, but I have not tested it.

3 Likes
#3

This got me curious as i suspected the arguably more ubiquitous (and cheaper) Keystep should also be able to do this, just hadn’t tried - ironically i fired the monotribe through the Keystep via its pulses and the Arturia did indeed pump out a useable Midi clock (keystep sync DIPs set to Sync In of course)

To get a clock i think you need to have a seq ‘playing’ - just record a single rest in step mode and the played sequence will only churn out clock data

4 Likes
#4

I also use a Volca Bass with a midi out mod to keep various things in sync and and midi clocked together. The Volcas emit sync pulses continuously, as far as I can tell, so I find that a little more useful than having to run a sequence on the Keystep.

2 Likes
#5

Thank you @darenager and @avantronica for the quick reply. Very good to have people like you here, sharing their knowledge. :slight_smile:
…
Up to now i wasn`t familiar with analog sync. I do have a Keystep (no Monotribe though) but so far never used the (analog) syncing functions.

Just to make things clear, what you are sugesting:

(In my setup the Lp16 has to be the ~ “master clock”)

  1. In my DAW i will make simple for example RimShot 16th note pattern (not longer than 10ms for each) for the pulse and loop that for the whole song as one track.
  2. i will connect that with a 3,5 Mono to 2,5 Mono (??) Jack ( is that the right cable?) to the input of the keystep : “Sync In” .
  3. i have to run a sequence… the tempo will be in time
  4. i can use the Keystep midi out, to give a midi clock and Transport ON to the Octatrack?

right? :sweat_smile:

#6

without digging further into your setup - broadly yes

the cable from your daw would more likely be mono 1/4" or 6.35mm and the sync in for the Keystep is mono 1/8" or ~3.5mm

it’s not a pretty way to solve this, but it’s a way to utilise some existing functionality whilst you investigate options

it’s a proof of concept - whether it works well for you is another matter

fwiw the OT doesn’t play ball if using pickup machines whilst synced to external clock - so there are pros and cons to all solutions - the pro is your existing gear is £0 compared to buying another gadget to solve an issue - there will be cons

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#7

Very cool, i will try that. I just even found the right cable in the cupboard.

(but just to make things clear, i`m not using a DAW in this setup, just the lp16 multitrack player for playing back some single tracks at the same time)

Thanks again and happy Sunday.

1 Like
#8

Yes just make sure to normalise pulse for maximum volume, 10ms duration, then it is just a case of determining the number of pulses the beatstep requires (probably 16?) per bar, then determining the space between each pulse for the required tempo.

If I was doing this my workflow would be:
Make 10ms pulse in DAW
Copy pulse wav to Octatrack
Create pattern in OT of 16 pulses, set target tempo of pattern
Record pattern into DAW for required duration
Export the pulse train into the LP16

2 Likes
#9

Thanks a lot for that, i will try and report if it worked :wink:
Happy sunday!

#10

Sadly i could not make it happen… i got as far as that the keystep was triggered and running, but the clock that lands in the Octa is much too unstable* I did several things to improve / debugging … but no way.

Anyway it is not that important at the moment for me, and i think about some day buying / testing if the the “E-RM Multiclock” can do the trick.

Thanks anyway for your help all.

Edit:* it jumps like from for example 120 to 160 bpm … and after a few circles the Octa even stops.

#11

I checked Lp16 manual, Midi input has a Thru option but I don’t understand what you can do with midi input. (Edit apparently just used as Midi to usb interface).

I don’t understand why they didn’t implemented a midi clock because it can read SMF Standard Midi File, so it can send midi notes.

So yes if you play an SMF file theorically with Midi Solution Event Processor you can map a midi note to transport Start / Stop messages and consecutive notes to clock ticks > tempo.

You have to create a midi file for that purpose.
Maybe play message is enough if you know the tempo.

Btw how do you handle tempo with your LP16?

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#12

You can also give this thing a try:


The old XL model that I have is quite good at BPM detection, however lacks MIDI.
If your tempo’s are without decimals, even better so.

1 Like
#13

Yeah, considering LP16 + ERM price you can almost buy a second (hand) OT instead!

1 Like
#14

hej @sezare56 … thanks for the hint. I`m so unfamiliar with the RK-002 cable/concept but i had this gut feeling that is should be possible.

Yes, the midi in is not doing much and YES… WHY did they not include “midi clock out”?! :man_shrugging:

So, … as far as i understand the Tempo on the lp16 goes like this:
it plays all the multitracks simultaneously… also the midi file.

The tempo of the audio files can`t be changed.

The midi file gets “start” signal at the same time… maybe the midi file even has to be in the exact length like the audio files… don`t know… but i just rendered a midi file out of my daw with the exact same length and tempo like my audio stems and could trigger notes in sync with my song, but thats all, no midi clock.

So, if you are sure the cable could do the trick, i will buy one… is it very hard to program? thanks.

#15

Pretty sure with Midi Solution EPPlus, it’s the easiest I know, and it has these functions. It is midi powered, as RK002 so you have to check if Lp16 midi out is powered with a multimeter (how to should be web documented).

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#16

Should be as simple as that :

1 note for Start

TimingStart
TimingStart.gif1150×615 77.1 KB

Several notes for Timing Clock (not sure about resolution).
Edit :

MIDI Timing Clock ( MIDI Sync) is a status byte (F8) that is sent 24 times per quarter note for note resolution .

TimingClock
TimingClock.gif1156×608 77.3 KB

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#17

hej, awesome, many thanks again.
I would love this solution. <3

Could not find any info about the midi out, but i think i have a multimeter somewhere :slight_smile: and will try to check it / find some info how to.
This is the first useful thing i came across…

MIDI_cable_pins
MIDI_cable_pins.jpg780×612 90.3 KB

1 Like
#18

@sezare56 i read your reply a bit careless … you where talking about the " MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus" not about the cable :sweat_smile::sweat_smile: … so yes, i will get the EPplus soon :slight_smile:

thnx again

#19

Yes. Doable with RK002 too but more complicated to program. I’m about to check with EPPlus and OT.

1 Like
#20

Do you want to buy a Lp16 too? Or what is your setup for OCTA & EPPlus?

I just ordered one…