From DYSTOPIA to UTOPIA

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

…while yesterday keeps always fighting against tomorrow…tomorrow always comes, no matter what…
so let’s have some discussion about zeitgeist and where it’s at…

but be warned…it takes more than two hours of ur life and attention…
oh, and to keep it also real and relevant HERE…soundtrack and sounddesign do a great job on this one in really supporting the narrative and the overall mindset…
so feel free to feed ur brain and talk about it…

…and it really makes only sense to post anything if ur really willing to spent that much time and attention to actually watch this in full length…
no chance to shortcut future without betraying it…

Apple WWDC 2023
#2

My brain is dieting at the moment.

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#3

All I remember from “Zeitgeist”/“Loose change” is that it was a manipulative and full-of-holes conspiracist* faux-documentary from decades ago that… hasn’t aged well at all.

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/1/14/92946/9451

Guess they’re still pushing the cult forward!

Here’s some resources towards past Utopian attempts that may give some better conception of how those attempts failed and what we can learn from them today-

*in that it didn’t cover actual conspiracies against us (in a more Adam Curtis sense.) Populist garbage isn’t trying to be “revolutionary” for the better. New guard, same as the old guard, trust them!

6 Likes
#4

…pushing the cult forward…?
…full of holes conspiracist faux doc…?
…decades old…?
…past utopian attempts…?

not sure we saw or “talk” about the same thing…but even if…nice proof of why we’re failing…

and ur still into all this conspiricy thing…!?..really…?..
and i thought, at least we could all agree on that did’nt age so well for real…

#5

We could certainly agree on certain issues with society and possible improvements.

The Zeitgeist Movement being promoted in these documentaries (the “movement” starting with the repackaged, aaaaaancient antisemitic blood libel tropes forming the structure of Zeitgeist / Loose Change) offers no enlightenment but servings of malice and power-seeking under the guise of liberation.

Anyway @reeloy, not an attack on you here so apologies for the strong response but these are not great sources or certainly not “Movements” to identify with. Populist sleight of hand moves attention away from any actual malactors towards historic scapegoats, and in 2023 we have enough attacks on the marginalized by the also-oppressed.

I share the desire to better society, certainly.

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#7

…let’s not talk about labeling…let’s talk about future concepts and open mindsets…

i can’t see any particular movement promoted here…
and what are those “very old antisemitic libel tropes” ur referring to…?..
have no clue what ur talking about…honestly…
and that sounds all just like more personal opinions…
but this is not intended to be about opinions…again…and again…
for once, let’s not get trapped or lost in further more biased in any way opinions…
while simply continue labeling each other…again…
this is about ALL OF US, as a species and future itself…
overcoming concepts of all sorts of classic/ancient top to bottom powerstructures…

#8

The Zeitgeist series of “documentaries” are created by and for The Zeitgeist Movement/The Venus Project, a “conspirituality” New Religious Movement.

Here’s some reception from when it came out

Here’s a link on understanding more about The Zeitgeist Movement (which these movies recruit new members through)

Here’s some info on NRMs (“Cult” is the common terminology, but can carry baggage so NRM can be substituted for more neutral discussion.)

#9

…thanx for the reference…and indeed, the doc ur referring to is NOT the movie i linked here…
apart from the fact that it seems indeed the same “conspirituality” organisation/religious movement “behind” it…no membership needed here…and i harldy recommend not to fall for any such things…

but since everything needs it’s funding in a monetary world, each and everone is biased in some sort or the other, i’d like to skip all whatsoever background motivations for now and once and actually exchange thoughts about the actual and naked CONTENT…

#10

Peter Joseph, leader of the religious organization The Zeitgeist Movement directed Zeitgeist: The Movie, Zeitgeist: Addendum, and Zeitgeist: Moving Forward (linked by you in this thread.)

I don’t need to consume the poop of questionably motivated charismatic religious groups to pick out the corn-y kernels of truth though!

Cults always say things that make sense in their recruitment/fishing/missionary phases and (sleight of hand, again) sideband inject their harmful ideas (like, in this case, Zeitgeist pulls hard from the zeitgeist of thousands of years of historical antisemitism to craft narratives that people are familiar with and respond to, in pushing towards populist scapegoats.)

That’s why it’s better to sidestep the dramatic agitprop and talk as people instead of forwarding cult narratives unmodified.

The more sweeping a narrative, the more it triggers emotional sway that lets darker shit take root.

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#11

…as said…i don’t care who’s “behind”…or any motives that made it come to existence…
i don’t need any next charismatic leader or what not to just discuss various path’ of possible future…

ur right in ur referencing…but that’s not leading to any point…and i think u really missed out on the naked content right away and upfront just because u already had made up ur mind by ur “references” and therfor did NOT watch it…but that’s just more bias…
forget for a minute what “he” might try to sell/tell u, just find out what’s the “story” there to be told and think for urself, what might be right, what might be wrong here…

i’m not promoting anything but thinking about tomorrow here…no boarders, no nations, no religions…just people and their possible attempts to live free, fulfilled and happy lifes…

#12

So basically “ignore that it’s made by a cult, just listen to what the cult is saying”

Hard pass

Thanks for pointing out the background, @thermionic

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#13

That’s the frustrating bit.

If the ideas could exist without the initiate framework and providing financial means to the religion, we wouldn’t need this “you HAVE to watch all 2h of it and we can’t diagram any ideas outside of the context of it” like I’m having the doors locked in on me because someone’s forcing my eyelids open to watch a L Ron Hubbard theatrical production.

Being biased is fine!

I bias myself by researching and following non-mainstream figures and ideas all the time.

And my god do I waste a lot of my life-energy following movements of individuals, because I’m seeking a better way.

I do not want to sign myself up for The Better Way To Utopia Give Us Your Money and also Blood Libel Movement.

There.
is.
no.
secret.
knowledge.

If I need to watch a series of 3 documentaries, you’ve failed to make your point how these people are somehow involved making a better world beyond explaining that you take them at their world because they’ve stirred your emotions.

Which is cool! But for all the complaints about “bias”, you’re wanting us to be biased towards the emotional sway the “documentary” has on you, not the unadorned contents and any facts contained within.

If you want to engage with people, bringing up any salient points that can be discussed beyond drawing people into The Zeitgeist Movement would be great.

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#14

…when a cult is labeling another cult to be a cult…scientology has won.

sorry for trying…let’s shut this down…

#15

Dystopia to Utopia: Find out what happens when people stop being selfish and start getting idealistic.

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#16

Hott!

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#17

Until Puck arrives!

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#18

…never be married to ur thoughts…progress is the only constant thing…

a single human life is a bit like the history of all human mankind…
and as a species, we’re simply not the adult in the room yet…
we came a long way and at least we already made it to the middle of our teenage rampage years…

aaand once we cross our mid twenties, roughly in about 2 or 3 centuries, finally grown up, everything’s gonna be fine…

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#19

But, aren’t we in a sort of philosophy dead space or holding pattern, for 100+ years now? I feel like I’m sitting around waiting for the thought drought to end but really I’m just one of those hobos waiting for Godot while clutching a brown paper bag.

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#20

I’ve known Peter Joseph’s opinions for 16 years now.

I was attempting to engage with you and your thoughts independent of the world Zeitgeist Movement’s instruction.

I mean yes, Zeitgeist the movie series and Zeitgeist the organized spiritualist movement are their own thing and beyond this context the word and German etymology in general are pretty neat.

No worries! I mean I’ve trying to not be dismissive of you, was attempting to pick your brain beyond that particular piece of media.

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#21

…hope, u quoting me here on thoughts is not one of peters official cult claims…
and also hope, u just take it as what it actually is…a pretty common phrase to stay open minded…
and that it was not aiming at u in any way…

and i swear by all gods possible, i just watched this one particular doc and did not see any cultish or other promotional attempt behind it…just some good points on where it’s at, some good thoughts on some reasonable concept for tomorrow and some naive ways how to get there…
i never heard of any peter joseph, never heard about any religous backgrounds, i’m not intrested in any “hidden” background motives…while the term “zeitgeist” is nothing but a german word to put progress in perspective and relation…

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