FMR RNC or RNLA on master

The Lounge Other Gear
#16

The important thing to understand is there are two types of side chain inputs on compressors.

The RNC/RNLA use an FX loop type. The other type, for daft punk style squashing and rebounding is a “KEY” input type. You can get the “KEY” input if you follow FMR’s FAQ and not connect the “TIP” side of an insert cable.

I actually prefer the FX loop type, as you can get heavier gain reduction without artifacts when using an HPF like the FMOD, or an EQ with heavy cuts in the low end (A mono bass eq pedal also works, by the way). The big bass of dance music won’t trip up the compressor (which is a usual complaint on the RNC), and the result is not unlike an L2 or Ozone master limiter.

I use this live with the RNC, in Super Nice Mode and you can hear it doing its thing on the entire mix here: https://soundcloud.com/adamjaylive/adam-jay-live-pa-louisville-ky-12-31-15

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#17

I’d like to add that a nice trick with the RNC is to hook up a small equalizer (I have a 6band MXR) to the RNC side chain insert.
If you have a mixer with post-EQ direct outs, you can use that, too (e.g. certain Mackie mixers).

That makes it possible to get some nice pumping sounds out of the RNC and in general have quite a lot of control over the signal transients (i.e. which signal bands trigger the compressor).

It’s really a nice, inexpensive and versatile little compressor.

Since the AR already has its own compressor (chaining it with the RNC is fun, btw), and colorizes the sound a lot on its own, I’m quite happy with my RNC.

That’s not to say anything bad about the RNLA, I simply have not tried that one, yet.

EDIT: AdamJay: you were faster, sorry for duplicate info.

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#18

Don’t apologize at all!
The tip on using a mixer channel with post EQ direct out is a good one as well!

Especially, mono channels which (on Mackie and Yamaha mixers) usually have a HPF button at around 75hz for microphone handling noise rumble, plus the low shelf EQ.

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#19

Thanks a lot for all these informations!!

I think i will buy a RNLA to put on the master, maybe with a Pedal EQ with the side chain.

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#20

If you needed one more vote for the RNLA, that would be my vote for Techno of any kind. Having owned both (only the RNC currently) I have to the RNC is totally transparent, though as it says on the tin…really nice : )

#21

Regardless of whether you get the RNC or RNLA (they both have a sidechain input), remember that you can simply use one of the AR individual outputs to control the compressor (“ghost kicks”).

This also works nicely when you use a sample with a short infinite loop, and a rather snappy amp envelope.

You can also use the AR filter to shape the sidechain signal even further.

I just tried that out and it sounds real punchy, great for electro beats, for example :slight_smile:

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RYTM Side Chain questions
#23

No, you cannot.
It’s a TRS fx loop insert side chain. You are describing a Key input side chain, and neither RNC nor RNLA have a Key input.[/quote]
I don’t know the terminology so well but they can definitely do the key input side chain thing; it used to be the only thing I used my RNLA for, sending an individual out from my MD to trigger the RNLA via its sidechain input.

I used a TRS-2x TS cable, plugging the TRS end into the MD (or Rytm) and plugging only one of the two TS ends to the sidechain input (can’t remember which). Maybe a simple TS cable would work in that case, but I remember getting it to work with that configuration some years ago.

#24

No, you cannot.
It’s a TRS fx loop insert side chain. You are describing a Key input side chain, and neither RNC nor RNLA have a Key input.[/quote]
It doesn’t explain in the manual anything about the sidechain . It is 1 input/output conector (fx loop). Can you explain how this works ?

#25

Just read your gearslutz post. Still confused about how key input is different .
Guess the best thing is to just try it for myself.
Like anything, there are posts saying its shit (rnc) and others saying its the ducks nutz.

#26

Sure it will do stuff, but it won’t actually function in the way a compressor with a Key input side chain works.

Since it is not a Key input style sidechain, you’ll be completely removing the signal of the L and R inputs as control signals.
In other words, the compressor won’t be reacting to the music in the inputs at all. Because the side chain is T.R.S (Tip/Send - Ring/Return) you’re not returning any of the L R signal that gets sent with a TRS cable.

It will ONLY be listening to the pseudo Key input as you’ve just broke the insert loop.

A true Key input side chain compressor will compress based on the dynamics of the input
as well as react to the signal in the side chain input.

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#27

As a workaround to achieve what AdamJay described, you can just send the compressor out and the sidechain source via a send on a mixer to the sidechain input of the compressor.

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#28

:+1:

#29

Thanks for explaining, this is really helpful. I was not aware of the existence of the “true key input” variant; I assumed all compressors switched to using the signal at the sidechain input completely.

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#30

AdamJay: Can you name some compressor brands that have that “true key input” you describe which mixes the sidechain signal with the input signal ?

I only know compressors that have a “sidechain input” which works exactly as in the RNC, i.e. you need to premix the sidechain+input signal if that’s what you’re after.

Then again, I’m not a studio engineer so there’s still a lot of things to learn – please educate me :slight_smile:

#31

The SSL G series rack bus compressor and its numerous variants are the most common.

Some of the newer variants (TK BC501) give you both a key input, as well as its own internal HPF.

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#32

I suppose the Elysia Xpresser can.

I used it for side-chaining my A4 during live shows. Its great for side chaining the kick and has a very clean sound.

Its a more expensive than the RNLA but if you find one second hand its a good deal.

#33

hey Adam
the RNC has 2 outputs per channel, right? So one on the input jack when using an insert cable … and one normal output jack.

Is it possible to use both outputs? So let´s say using the output in the input jack with a insert adaptor to send audio to a recorder (Tascam drm5 for example) and the normal output jack to send audio to the pa/stage mixer?

Are you using the hpf mod on the sidechain fx loop? Could you post a simple example with and without the mod? Just wondering if the RNC grab to much bass without the mod.

What times for attack and release do you use? Whein I´m working with bus compressor vst I mostly set attack to 30ms and relase to 0,1 s.

Would be nice to share some tricks :slight_smile:

#34

Here is my test of the RNLA on the master.

Only problem is I don’t really know what I’m doing so…

https://soundcloud.com/jameshugg/rnla-with-filter

first four bars is bypassed

next four are engaged

rest is engaged with log release engaged

I attempted to keep the make up gain such that the engaged peaks are no higher than the bypassed such that any volume increase is from the compressor and not from simply having more gain.

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#35

thanks guys for posting the compressor links, these look quite nice.
Maybe I’ll get a better one some day.
I do use software compressors a lot, though, but even the budget RNC hardware sounds better to me than most software plugins, that’s why I have it on my master bus (I only have one hardware compressor ATM, besides the AR builtin compressor).

@AdamJay: I still think your conception of a “true key input” is not quite right: The SSL G-series compressor you mentioned does not mix the external side chain input with the regular audio input, like you said in one of your previous posts.
If you enable the external side chain input, the external signal completely replaces the regular audio signal, just like any other compressor I’ve seen so far does.
Just think about it, it would be really terrible if it did not work that way :slight_smile:
The x-pressor also works that way.
I’ve not used these two compressors myself but I just took a look into their manuals to confirm this.

To anyone having trouble using the sidechain input for replacing the sidechain signal:
You need two TRS insert cables.
Plug one into the sidechain input of the RNC/RNLA, the other one into an invidual output of the AR.

Now you need a coupler to connect the AR output (one of the mono ends of the insert cable) to the “ring” (return) end of the RNC/RNLA insert cable.

The easiest way to do this is to use a stomp box, does not matter which one you pick.
You just need its input and output jacks, the FX can run in bypass.
I use an EQ box for this.

The EQ can also be used as an insert effect for the RNC, i.e. it would EQ the regular input signal in that case, producing an internal sidechain signal that is different from the original audio signal.

#36

This thread has given me a better understaning (I think) of sidechaining because of all the searching I have now done (in regards to my RNC).
I think one problem is its sometimes hard to explain in writing, with inputs, outputs, internal, external audio etc…

So heres what I have gathered in regards to RNC.

You have 2 audio signal paths (lets forget its stereo ftm).
The first (#1) is what you hear, audio in to compressed audio out.
The second (#2(a copy of audio in)) is used as the control source that the compressor uses to do its thing on the audio #1.

Now the sidechain, when you plug in a TRS conector/cable, it breaks the conection of audio #2 (control), or another way of thinking is it sends that control audio out (to be EQ’d, filtered or what ev’s) and also receives it back again on the one conector, hence an insert cable is used. So its completly seperate to what you hear on the audio outputs other than it is used to "shape " the audio #1.

So in theory (still havn’t tried this) you could for example have a synth pad going into the main inputs and have a different sound (kick) pluged into the sidechain’s in, to get your Daft pump. And not hear the kick (because its actually a control source).

So I dont get what this “key” thing is.
Does it simply mean that, as like in the above example, except that the kick will be mixed internaly with the compresed audio output, so you do hear the kick and the now compresed synth pad ?

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