Yes, and look at that as an example, remember the discussion around it in its infancy, before sample clearance became a thing? Left wing press were all in favour of it, right wing press were calling it theft. Even today, right here on this forum and all over the internet you hear tons of tracks with samples from records - everyone going to stop doing that?
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Oh shit! So your analogy was a broader context!
You’re saying the sampling conversation is just as tired and worn out as the AI conversation!
Couldn’t agree more, bro!
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I’d rather be Roger Lynn’s bitch than Elon Musk’s.
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Not really, it’s not a 1:1 comparison at all.
But I agree that it seems to be pointlessly polarising, and that some people just love to argue for the sake of it.
Would be nice if we could all agree… AI has the potential for help and for harm. Intent is everything.
If I see a person hit by a car, I’m not gonna say “I don’t completely agree with the use of mobiles”, I’m gonna whip my phone out and call them an ambulance.
Same, I expect any sane person here, in the event of their loved-ones needing a life-saving medical treatment, ain’t gonna refuse said treatment because the use of AI helped develop it.
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yeah but if the people in control had a shred of humanity in them they would pull the plug until they can stop the CSAM but they actually dont care about that or wont admit that they dont know how to turn off the CSAM machine they made.
pretty ugly and gross! its not a smear if its just true. then its just facts you dont like to hear.
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My (least) favorite part of this thread is that when the people actually doing the thing many of us on this forum feel is incredible (DIY/ self-started diy instruments/ boutique instruments) speak up on the topic in a way that is not completely affirming of the hacking, you all mostly ignore them and barely interact because it’s inconvenient to the narratives you’ve woven about the topic. Prime example: Trash80, developer of the Dirtywave m8’s post earlier in the thread.
You don’t interact when people rightfully call out the growing bug reports and feature requests for some of the firmwares and wonder how long support will last (I know some firmware hackers are making good-faith efforts to support). You don’t interact when people call out the bad-faith actors who have or are charging for their hacked firmwares.
I can’t help noticing that those questioning whether this is actually a good thing are reacting to the thing that’s actually happening while those who are fully on board with it are working out of an idealized, self-romanticizing mindset.
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I don’t think that’s exactly accurate. Currently I see 45 likes and 3 replies on his post…
I also don’t think this discussion needs to be reduced to values discussion. I totally agree with Trash80s sentiment. That being said we on this forum don’t get to decide what the reality regarding vibe coding firmware will be. All we can do is discuss about it, which I think is also worth something.
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I also find the discussion interesting, but more when people discuss rather than bandwagon or go into their blind tribalism of for or against. I asked 3 questions, I can ask them more clearly but I would really be interested in answers and why people feel that way:
Q: Do you think creative people or engineers who build ‘from the ground up’ are going to continue to be motivated to do so knowing reverse engineering is going to become increasingly more prevalent?
Q: Do you think the younger generation is going to bother with traditional learning through failure when they can consult AI for a ballpark answer/solution?
Q: Do you think as a species we should we preserve the productive struggle?
I think folks need to get over themselves!
My family can’t agree on dinner! That’s just four of us! Can you imagine folks yelling on the Internet!
This whole conversation reminds me of a coach at a post game presser! It’s called coach speak!
They say a ton of shit, without saying anything at all!
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Well then, nah, encrypted is safe!
Show me a
Tonverk mod
Hydrasynth mod
Or a Nintendo Switch Lite mod
You will not find any! Cause they are encrypted by HI (human intelligence) some powerful shit mate!
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Cameras have been used for horrible purposes since their invention.
Should Sony stop selling digital cameras just in case someone misuses them?
It’s not so simple as that.
If AI is contributing towards saving lives (it is, as well as harming some), should we switch it off, to avoid the harm, or leave it on to help?
It’s like the old ethical dilemma, would you kill 1 person to save 100?
Also, perhaps the topic you mentioned, is thankfully a very small percentage of the population… whereas, the amount of research, to help humanity, that AI is facilitating, or speeding up, is far more widespread.
I’ll say again, (getting bored of repeating it though)…
“AI IS GOOD!” “NO AI IS BAD!”
Are needlessly simplistic, polarising, and divisive views, that have no place anywhere except the school playground, perhaps.
Fucks sake, if ONLY life were that fucking simple… be a lot easier to navigate, wouldn’t it?
Mate… that’s a bit rude! You think folks are shit?
See how I left out bits of your quote, misquoting you, to distort your meaning?
I never said we should all agree (full stop)… I said it would be nice if we could all agree, that there are good and bad uses and aspects of AI.
I’m happy to discuss anything with anyone… it’s the over-simplified, over-polarized, overly divisive stances that are tiresome.
I definitely wouldn’t say this whole thread, has said nothing at all.
I’ve learned a lot from this thread, had my mind and viewpoint challenged and opened, and consider it time fairly well spent (despite getting a little annoyed at occasional dogmatic or disingenious responses).
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If the fact that someone might reverse engineer or otherwise appropriate their stuff puts them off then they weren’t really that motivated in the first place. The people that are in it because they spot a gap in the market and think they can make some money from it might be dissuaded. People that are compelled to create whatever because they feel that it needs to exist, to satisfy their personal needs or curiosity, or to benefit others, will continue to build new things because they must.
I’m reminded of what I heard someone say a while ago in regards to the rise of AI, that they were concerned that if the things they are good at become trivial to accomplish and ubiquitous thanks to automation, that they would feel they had less value as an artist and a person. To me this indicated a lack of true instrinsic motivation, they’re doing what they do because they’re seeking validation, and it must seem like a zero-sum game to them.
Depends on the person and situation, some people really like finding their own way of doing things. For relatively trivial or tedious problems I think most people will increasingly lean on their AIs rather than do the legwork. In terms of this being a net positive or negative I’m not sure, it’s definitely going to cause a lot of problems (already is), but will also be a force multiplier for well motivated and disciplined individuals.
Partially answered this with some of the above. I think curiosity and boredom will endure regardless of the level of utopian/dystopian technological automation, we’ll find ways to keep making life interesting (or difficult) for ourselves. I think we could artificially create incentives for people to do interesting things, this often comes up as a possibility in discussions about UBI. I’m not entirely sure how necessary that would be due to the aformentioned boredom and curiosity. People like novelty, new fashions and genres, and I think there’s going to be a constant churn of those.
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To be honest, intellectual property is one of the most stupid terms I know.
So if you think of something and have the means to make it a real thing, then its lost for the rest of us?
Why is everyone so afraid of AI? Its because your stuff is not good enough? Or is it about money?
Take AI stuff and build something out of it, don‘t just generate use it and call it copy.
It is in its core sampling and mash up. Listen to two many djs. Mash up…noone mistakes the original songs für the mashup.
Same with hardware, open it up, I will use it. Its still an octatrack from elektron and not by me. And noone will take credits away from elektron for building it.
Why are people are always afraid about the future. Take the bad stuff it brings out of the way and praise the good stuff. Or be mad in your cave because the good old times are over. Was duch a nice time when only the beatles could afford a recording studio. Down with Laptops and interfaces…way to many shitty stuff is made with those.
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If you look at who liked it, you’ll find it’s pretty solidly (but not completely) along what I would politely call "ideological lines"on the topic. But there really wasn’t any discussion of his points, just a heart. I wouldn’t exactly call that interacting in any meaningful sense.
I get your point though. I’m not trying to reduce this to a values discussion - i’m trying to do precisely the opposite, actually. That’s why I tried to specifically call out actions rather than ideologies.
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any resources to support this?
if my MRI machine was doing its job as an MRI machine but also dumping out half a million images of CSAM every day i would probably say, “yo…lets go back to the other MRI machine until we figure out this CSAM problem…”
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As someone who have to deal with Adobe ripping of public services like universities, schools and public libaries, and so on, i have to say: Adobe and companys like them deserve it to go bancrupt and being wiped from the face of the earth.
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And also a bit sad and disappointing. I was looking for some inspiration from fellow online art “colleagues” and saw some good concept art sketches, block outs - pre production pieces, done by a art veteran of 20+ years of experience, but they were created using midjourney, an ai image generator, so kinda flushed it down the toilet for me, and left this wierd hole.
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If you really don’t want to be bound by rules, why not use your creativity to figure out a way to save all 101 people?
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Or starve a million so one guy can be rich…
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It won’t stop makers from making things as you say, but it will stop them from sharing it online, or at least second guessing themselves from sharing it publicly.
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