Drum loops vs. crate digging/samples vs. one shots vs. live playing

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

this came to mind yesterday as i was thinking about picking up some new loops from the kount. i’ve used his one shots and loops for awhile now. they’re great for lots of styles. i’ve gotten into a really productive streak of sample based beat making with ableton lately, which made me think about the relative merits of using loops from producers vs. digging up samples vs. any other way of producing the music. in the end, it probably doesn’t matter how a given piece is produced if it sounds good or is otherwise enjoyable to make.

is it cheating to use loops? is it just more sampling? does it even matter?

what do you think?

related:

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#2

I’m cool with it all. The only thing I’m on the fence about is if one is using loops and one shots and basically just painting by numbers–they aren’t editing/chopping/doing any of sound design, just using straight pre-made stuff.

Even then, unless you are buying full song construction kits, it still takes an ear to put it together and arrange it into something anyone wants to listen to–this feels a bit like DJing to me. In the same vein if you are performing your arrangements versus programming them there is certainly a level of skill involved there was well.

I rarely use a totally unaltered sample unless I want people to recognize the sample. The exception being if its a loop or one shot of a “real” instrument (versus a synthesizer)–something I couldn’t recreate myself.

I’ve been digging deep into Legowelt’s vintage synth sample packs from his website (free). I also love crate digging and working with synthesizers to make sounds in addition to using samples in various ways.

And your right, that for the most part, the audience probably doesn’t care.

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#3

I kind of think it’s cheating to use others loops but also, if it sounds good, who gives a fuck haha. I, personally, like to sample my own instruments or sounds, but I’ve made things in the past using samples from Lord of the Rings and Star Wars etc, and I really love Burial’s sampling of video games and unknown YouTubers singing covers. So, whatever keeps you happy and productive really.

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#4

Yeah give it a bit of your own treatment – or be really elegant (?) in what you‘re referencing when you keep it mostly unprocessed.
I find it completely okay, ironically I kind of avoid these kinds of premade loops and such myself. Mostly to… force myself to learn sound creation a bit more. But eh, that‘s only myself who cares about that I guess.

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#5

yeah, that’s the thing. so much of old house was all samples of disco — some of it barely changed. hip hop has used samples forever. maybe the bits are cut up or effected in some way, maybe not. there are plenty of famous songs that are completely based on some other song with barely any alteration. despite this, i still feel guilty considering a drum loop. considering all the cross pollination, it doesn’t make much sense. people have been bitin’ rhymes since the old days. if it sounds good, maybe that’s enough.

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#6

Isn’t Everything (is) a Remix?

My view is you shouldn’t feel bad about it. I love your stuff by the way, if that helps.

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#7

many thanks! for what it’s worth, my recent stuff hasn’t involved any loops like this, just one shots or source samples. on some level, i understand the purity tests, you know? “where’s the artistry in this?” but then DJs cut up sources live and get street cred. is it different because of the performance? maybe, but it sounds the same.

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#8

Haha yeah better use that artistically true 909 emulation before using them pre-made oneshot samples!

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#9

I basically don’t care what anyone else does. There’s no rules to any of this, as far as I’m concerned (despite having the opposite impression when I came up in the 90s!)

Personally I don’t buy drum loop sample packs, but I have collected loads of them over the years from all kinds of places. I chop them, combine them with single hits and FM sounds and then process them to get them how I want them. I basically love drums and drum programming so using loops would be depriving myself of creating the rhythms and sculpting the sounds.

But, as I said, that’s strictly for myself. It isn’t some kind of yardstick I judge others by and it’s essentially guided simply by me doing what I enjoy doing. I know people who don’t like drum programming at all. And they deserve dea… I mean - and that’s totally fine

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#10

Sampling to me is like referencing something old, and using it in a new context, so basically making something new out of something that wasn’t meant that way. Kind of like reframing history.

Because of this, I feel like the samples I use should sound like a reference to an old recording, not like a perfectly fitting loop which couldve been something new just as well. I like how people like rza,dj premier or dilla basically let you hear that theyre messing up the source material, they’re not using perfect loops because its convenient.

To me, the first thing is an artform, the second thing (like using readymade loops from splice) is just that: a very convenient and easy way to make good sounding music.

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#11

I haven’t thought of it that way, but I feel the same. Like sampling loops works if it’s obvious that it’s sampled, if it draws attention to its own nature. I guess that’s why I find production loops that have been created to be production loops so boring. Also, loops that have been cut from an existing recording tend to have interesting rhythmic qualities that ‘Mega Tech House Loop Kutz for Ableton vol 12’ won’t.

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#12

Still having more satisfaction creating sample loops myself then buying or using them from others. I think i prefer to be on that side of the market. Although i love real drum breaks and non electric musical instrument samples. Sometimes it ignites GAS for a drumset, a upright bass or a sax but you can’t buy skills to learn to play them all in a lifetime, not to mention the space you need to store it all.

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#13

so true. i suppose there is that element of the “buy vs. build” mentality in here, too. if i were a vocalist or guitarist or something, i could totally see using loops or produced breaks as a way to get quickly to finished ideas. a lot of this type of production tends to be marketed toward MCs who might use them to rap over. there was some song i did awhile ago that used a classic disco beat sample paired with a hihat loop from one of the kount’s packs because it had just the right swing. i didn’t feel bad about it at all.

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#14

Using other peoples loops is a bit like collage.
It can be a very fine art form if done well. Or a yawn inducing paint by numbers experience if not.

I like to write my own beats, and if i want loops, I’ll sample my own work. As alluded to above, if you’re making music but cant write beats? …

Anyway… each to their own, ultimately does it matter? Enjoy making what ever you make how ever you make it

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#15

Don’t think too hard about it. Do what works and brings you the most joy.

Not intended for the OP, but no one cares about your music or how it was made. Just make it.

If people like it, they like it. If they don’t, they don’t.

No one cares how it was made.

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#16

I also like what Julien says here: just cause you use a sample pack doesn’t mean your music will sound good, or be good. You still have to know what you’re doing, and what sounds good. You still have to have an ear, and some talent for the respective genre you’re trying to produce.

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#18

I can’t really speak for other genres and traditions, but I think that with sample based more traditionally minded hip-hop production a lot of what it’s about is discovery and recontextualization. And I think that’s why its easy to see something like looping up a sample from a sample pack as cheating. That jazz record you went through was put down just to be a jazz record. The sounds in that sample pack were meant to be sampled.

I think if you would have asked me years ago I would probably say it’s cheating. But I’m more inclined now to just say make dope beats. And I think part of that was people putting every record that used to be hard to find on youtube. And all of the comments in there are kids talking about how they’re going to chop it up. And even before that it was people saying what samples everyone used on websites like the-breaks or now Who Sampled.

All that said, I like doing things mostly the old way. I like going through my records. I like stumbling across things because they happened to be in the ‘new arrival’ section at the record store more than I like the youtube algorithm recommending it. But I like that too. I don’t really mess with sample packs generally. I like knowing more drum breaks than is healthy. But I also like J-Zone’s break records.

I like making my own samples too.

Gang, I just like making beats.

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#19

I’d equate it to using session musicians. Nothing wrong with getting help from someone with better skills in one area in order to focus on the whole. But if you’re relying on them to do everything for you then have you really created anything yourself?

Personal example: I suck at basic drum programming and would rather focus on melody and arrangement. Can’t afford a session drummer so loops are the next best thing. But i also like bonkers complexity so those loops are a mere starting point for whatever the hell i do with them next (chopping, layering, fx etc). The initial loop might not be my own but in the end I’ve added something of myself to even that part.

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#20

For me. Loops can be a nice way to get started, find inspo or learn new things.

But drum loops can also make it more difficult to compose a track since you don’t get that single sound control, which can hinder both mix and arrangement

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#21

When i started making beats, i was using a lot of samples packs with loops and one shots, i did not sample by myslef. I learned a lot this way, it trained my ear, i learned how to tune samples, make it sound together.
but it was also frustrating, I felt like I wasn’t doing things by myself, like a child doing a coloring page of his favorite superhero instead of drawing it.
Now i can’t imagine using loops, but i still use drums one shots, i tried a lot to make my own drums, but i never managed to make them sound like in my favorite sample pack. I use the same drum sample pack for 5 or 6 years now, never purchase anything eĺse (i tried a lot in the past). This is a goldbaby sample pack made with vinyl samples, sampled in a mpc60 and processed with high end analog studio gear. I think this guy did the best sounding drums ever, i can’t compete with him so i give up make my drums and still use those.

But for the use of loops, imagine a guitarist downloading guitar loops to make his music, it would be frustrating for him to didn’t play by itself, i think it’s the same for the beatmaker. And it’s really pleasant to trim a sample, tune it, chop it and slice it, it open abunch of possibilitys!

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