Loop libraries: does anyone actually dl and use loops beyond typical drum breaks?

The Lounge General Discussion
#18

Let’s say you had a friend that was a really good bass player. Better at playing bass than you with better sounding gear. You email him a beat you were working on for his opinion and he dug it, then recorded a sick bass line to that beat and emailed it back to you.

If you liked his bass line, it fit in perfectly with the song you were working on, and allowed you to concentrate on all the other aspects of the song… would you use it?

Now what if he wanted to charge you $.99 for that song? A small price really for a royalty free song element from a skilled musician.

Now you’ve got a nice song, with a great bass line that you didn’t write or perform, would you still consider yourself the producer of the song? Would it make the experience worse using his contribution? Does using elements not produced by you automatically make the song of a worse quality, even if that individual element used is, in actuality, of a better quality than you could ever create?

Fun and interesting to think about for sure.

I say make the melodies, and they will come.

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#19

I was thinking about this yesterday watching the video for NIs new soft synth - their take on Outputs arcade. My thoughts were - that’s sounds good - but it’s unsatisfying using sounds that anyone can just have….

But then, on the other hand, in hardware we strive for that sound - for that Moog sound or that Sequential sound or whatever… and that’s cool - aspirational almost….

No real conclusion, just an observation on my own inconsistency.

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#20

I suppose the thing about loop libraries is that they can take you to sonic spaces, textures, chord progressions and harmony that you’d never arrive at just by playing. Whatever their merits otherwise - that is the thing that I like about working with them - they give me a richer palette.

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#21

I use loop libraries, especially when making music with the OT, but I’m of the school of thought to chop it up and turn anything melodic into something completely different. I will use drum loops with no shame, because I find programming drums to be tedious, and what I come up with won’t be as good as the gazillion drum loops that are out there. I view that no differently from being in a band, having a drummer, and telling him to give me a disco beat.

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#22

I’ve tried using premade loops but I always end up wanting a different time-feel (more swing less, swing, triplet feel, no triplet feel, etc), wishing this drum hit was there instead of here, etc.

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#23

not sure if it’s already been linked, but i asked a similar question awhile back.

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#24

Hmm very interesting :face_with_monocle: by that logic it seems as if one is creating simply to serve one’s ego. - And may in fact be getting in the way of a good collaborative production, a legitimate collaboration with other human creators. Yes… now I’m leaning towards making loops again! :thinking:

#25

With the exception of Jungle/DnB drums, nope never. I personally feel like using any kinds of musical loops is incredibly lazy and more akin to just DJing rather than actually creating music. Unless it’s genre specific like Drum and bass or Jungle where the genre actually dictates using Amen breaks etc. I don’t respect musicians who use loops personally. But to each their own.

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#26

As a rule, no. I love synths and drum machines. If I try to use samples I end up searching and searching for what I need when I’d rather crack on with creating. But!…

I recently promised a friend I would sample a video speech thing. I added some drums and a bassline in an electro style and it didn’t work, no matter how much I tweaked it. In the end I scrapped everything got some reggae drum samples and a bassline, reggae guitar chords and mixed them up. It just suited the vocal way more than any instruments I had to hand.

I then got a second drum loop to layer in. It really helped the groove but it was too busy. So I added reverb to one of the drum tracks to make the woody percussions pop. I then cut everything out of that track I didn’t want to pop.

To beef things up I added some 606 hits. The end result with the percussion was very full, groovey and the right taste for the track.

Mixed it down again.

Everything sat right accept one of the guitar chords sounded out of key, so I reached for my guitar and recorded my own. Had it have been a saxophone part I would have had to spend some time looking for a good sample as it’s not an instrument I own or play. But whatever it takes to achieve a vision.

So the moral of the story is this was definitely not a lazy process. This was all about knowing what worked and what didn’t work, refining source material and mixing down just as I would any track I make.

What I will say is that using pre-recored loops is great practice for putting together good mixes. If you pick some well recorded sounds that sound sort of nice together anyway, getting the mix to gel is quite easy, then you can really go to town on the polish and make things pop.

If you’re using samples and your music sucks it’s a different story, but I don’t think using samples or not using samples is going to make or break your output.

I’m not big on sampling myself as a rule, but I fully appreciate music that is heavily sample based such as hip hop, drum and bass, dub etc, even though I’m more into electro/techno/experimental sounds.

There’s some cool videos where a guy remakes some prodigy tunes from the original samples and they sound so different in the track than they did at source. Samples can just be complex oscillators also. You can slice them, warp them, pitch them around to come up with something new. Your imagination and thirst for trial and error will take you places you will never get with one shots.

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#27

Happy to slice, dice, layer and generally mangle the fk out of drum loops.

Used to do a fair bit of collage type stuff based around melodic and dialogue sampling; kinda lost interest in that type of thing.

Never been interested in prepackaged melodic or atmospheric sounding loops.

#28

On occasion I use percussive loops for work music. I’m fairly certain I wouldn’t ever for my “personal” music.

#29

But why then many say that it’s OK to use drum loops but not melodic/harmonic loops? Is rhythm not as important as melody or harmony? We say we don’t use drum loops as is unless we chop, slice, spice them to create your own beats. But certainly, we can do the same with melodic/harmonic loops. I guess I don’t get the “guilt” of using melodic/harmonic loops. Saying that we’re not good at drum programming so we use loop is similar to saying we are not good at hearing chords/intervals so we use melodic loops, etc.

To me there are at least 2 types of musicians. There are those who feel they have to create every detail of the music themselves in order that the result is really their creation. Of course, this leaves the questions open where the process begins/ends. Do pre-configured synths impose a pre-made concept and therefore not pure enough, etc. Then there is another type who likes to, metaphorically, carve a sculpture from a tree trunk. Without the tree, they can’t work. They have to see that tree in order the see the sculpture hidden within.

So really I feel it’s a matter of perspective and knowing what works best for you. I certainly don’t feel anyone’s music is less because they use loops. As long as it’s good.

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#30

Couldn’t have put it better myself.

#31

I like using loops. I hate looking for loops I like though.

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#32

Definitely not against them, and sometimes they help get me unstuck. Once I browsed Logic loops for ideas (they play in time with your song), found a nice horror-movie piano part, and it inspired me to quickly make my own horror-movie piano part.

Mostly though I prefer to make my own samples. The struggle to make them work is grit that make the pearl. The satisfaction level is higher when everything is done from scratch, too.

#33

I’ve been guilty of this myself. I think if you’re a fan of electronic music, particularly idm, breakcore, or lofi beats, which all contain lots of sound design and detailed programming and timing- you sort of feel like the drums ARE the song, so if you borrowed those and used them “as-is” you already sacrificed half your “ownership” of the song.

I also feel like the melodic aspects of electronic music are usually more associated with emotional expression, therefore more intimate an expression. Whereas drums can easily act as an ego expression if you’re a badass rhythm programmer/drummer. I can’t remember ever seeing a loop pack labeled “emotional drums”, they definitely provide vibe and atmosphere though and set the tone of the energy level.

I think a good loop needs to walk a fine line between generic and unique so it remains interesting while allowing others to impart their personalities into it, and be made with the intention to facilitate others dissecting and rearranging into something else entirely rhythmically and/or melodically.

You could analyze everything down to the point of you having to throw away everything and build brand new unheard of and original copyrighted instruments from scratch in the pursuit of “originality”.

To your point, it’s funny how all amen break users get a guilt free pass :thinking:

“Oh this is Jungle I’m supposed to do this”

What progressive thinking! 🥸

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#34

From a legal standpoint, drum beats aren’t actually considered songwriting and can’t be copyrighted in the same way as melody or lyrics. Drumming is considered an “accompaniment” (although anyone who has ever played with a bad drummer knows how crucial that role is). Yes, drums are important, but chords and melody make the song. That’s why lifting a melodic loop feels wrong to most people, but drum loops are more or less fair game.

For a particular project, if the rhythm isn’t central to the idea that I want to convey, then it’s something I’m willing to outsource.

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#36

I occasionally use samples from Loopcloud but I’ll chop up bits I like, mangle it, use parts chromatically, slow it down and add some crazy reverb for background stuff, all sorts. That or I stick it on the Octatrack, forget about it and a few weeks later when I’m browsing around for inspiration I’ll come across it and it’ll spark something that ends up mangled and unrecognisable anyway (because OT). Drums I usually make on the Rytm but that’s mainly due to the sequencer and trig conditions etc. Breaks I happily use chopped up samples for.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using samples, melodic or otherwise, depending on your genre (like I wouldn’t feel comfortable with someone saying they composed a piano piece when it’s just a bunch of samples stuck after each other). But samples can be just as much an instrument as anything else. I think looking down on them is similar to a drummer looking down on a drum machine.

As long as you’re not making a song specifically out of stacking pre-mixed samples and claiming it as your own, you shouldn’t feel like you’re cheating if you’re using a tool that leads you where you want to be.

#37

Personally, I’m game for anything. Melodic or percussive loops, doesn’t matter. What does matter to me is whether I put my own spin on things. Like if I take a sample from a song that’s just the first 16 bars or a loop from a sample pack and add some drums to it without changing the sample at all, it’s hard for me to feel like I’m really making it mine. Now if I took those 16 bars/loop and chopped them, or repitched them, then it feels like something new and mine.

TLDR: It’s not what you use but what you do with it (imo).

Edit: no MIDI chord packs tho :wink:

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#38

Well if you’re bringing it into the philosophical realm I think that makes the answer more obvious. When you’re asking things like where does one draw the line the inevitable answer is: The location of that line is highly personal, it’s completely subjective.

For me the line is, all sounds get created by hand from one shots to drum patterns from blank synth patch to bass line, melody, chord progression, pads, effects etc etc

But that’s MY line and I have that line because I’m a sound designer by profession and I throughly enjoy the process of creating sounds and whenever I complete anything I feel honest that the work is mine because it literally is mine. I never ever ever use synth presets no matter what. I fucking love synths not just because I love the sounds of them but also because of the act of programming it’s something I feel passionately about. I remember a while back I found an artist where I was feeling they’re tracks but after finding the exact bass sounds and drum sounds in a random sample pack I lost all respect for them and couldn’t really listen to them anymore.

If I’m writing something in a genre like DnB/Jungle, UK garage or more likely if I’m writing something where I want to nod to that genre then yes 100% I’ll be using dub samples because those are the things that define those genres so that’s how you’re going to get that vibe and pay the homage to what inspires you.

If one uses pre made one shot samples I don’t look down on them for that at all. If they use pre made drum loops with little or no editing or mangling yea I look down on that and if they use pre made melodies and chord progressions…why even bother saying you’re writing your own music? That’s closer to what a DJ does or what you’d do for a remix, you’re taking something already written and just mixing and matching…boring and pointless to me and doesn’t really speak to how I view the art of creating music, the only exception to that hard and fast rule is when you take a sample and flip it, I view that 100% as counting as music as art. Yet if someone takes and old sample and adds some drums nope doesn’t count.

It might not make sense to everyone (though I have a feeling it may make sense to many)
That’s where my lines are. Ultimately it’s about art and integrity and truly expressing yourself. Who am I to say what counts and what doesn’t? Who are you? Right? We’re the creators and the listeners, no one is a bigger fan of music than a musician and if you’re truly a fan of an art form you’re going to have some serious opinions about what is and what isn’t good or important and that’s why it’s so personal it’s all subjective. The way my brain works I literally couldn’t make a track with any presets or any pre made melodies or anything because it feels incredibly disingenuous and I wouldn’t feel even the slightest bit of pride or accomplishment in it.

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