Several DAWs and some other hardware/software has both options—clips vs timeline.
Which do you use/prefer, and why? This isn’t about which is “best,” but why and how you use each.
I find session clips in Ableton are great for capturing loops, but I struggle to arrange them. I prefer a timeline for arranging.
One tip I have for the clip grid: switch off record count-in, and set global quantization to none, and launch mode to toggle. Then you can use the pads to grab quick samples on the fly.
Always “Arranger” or whatever other terms are used for the traditional DAW timeline. It just makes more sense to me being able to draw automation across however many bars or the entire song, as well as controlling the overall volume at all points of a song. I don’t really understand the advantages of a clip-based approach other than pretending to “play live”
Arranger all the way. I don’t understand clips at all.
i write tracks so, arranger
I start in clips/session and hopefully end up in arranger. My first draft is often jammed live from session view into arranger.
Edit: thank you for this tip, btw!
Arranger. Even with my push 3, I mostly record things (including push’s outputs) into Live’s arrangement view because I find that way more natural for songwriting. If I do use clips it’s usually simply to re-sample something Ned Rush style.
…bitwig does both eye to eye…clips for sketching ideas…classic timeline arranger for final arrangements…
for those who take computer to the stage…all back into clip view again…
When I used ableton I used arranger for writing tracks, session for playing gigs.
I dont use a DAW anymore.
Everything ends up in the arranger and I spend most of my time there. I use the clip view to get ideas down, try things, create variations, etc., you know, the typical stuff. That said, I do not spend too much time here, and I often don’t even use the clip view at all. Ultimately, whatever I have in clip view gets arranged and immensely expanded in the arranger, or I just start in the arranger.
Now that I use Bitwig, and since it allows me to have the clip and arrange view opened side by side, I also use the clip view as a place to backup things, or as a manual version control system if that makes sense. If I know that I am about to destroy a clip or a pattern in the arranger, I move it to the clip view quickly, do my thing, and if it all sucked ass, I just quickly drag the clip from clip view back to the arranger.
Another advantage in Bitwig is that an instrument clip can be dragged to another track with a key and mouse combination and it bounces the audio. I often like to do that within the clip view to keep the arranger clean, and then drag the bounced audio into the arranger as needed.
In case some of you didn’t know, you can do this back and forth in Live too. If I remember correctly, you either a) click and hold the clip in clip view, use the key that switches from clip view to arrange view (I think it is “Tab”) while still holding, and then drag the clip into the arranger; or b) have a split view/split screen setup.
Clip view for sketching out ideas, and planning scenes.
Arrangement view for composition.
That said, I love making loops in Arrangement view with comping.
Arrangement View.
I only used Session View to access the mixer in Ableton Live. Enabling mixer access from Arrangement View is a Live 12 update that I’m looking forward to.
When I first bought Ableton Live I I was indeed thinking I’d be launching clips like a mofo from Session View. Then the damn computer broke on me, which let me to start buying grooveboxes. So I never did get around to using Session View when I finally got a computer that can run Live plus multiple plugins without slowing down.
So now any improvised clip/pattern launching for me is mostly likely to happen on some hardware unit first, with Ableton only used to capture audio and MIDI, then arranged the newly captured data.
That said, I might used whatever hybrid view(s) will be introduced in Live 12, after recording audio and MIDI generated from external sources. Live 12 is apparently moving away from the strict Session vs. Arrangement view duality.
Session view is what got me into producing with software. Before that I was hardware only–standalone digital recorders.
To me it’s the defining characteristic of the software. My preferred space to create.
Nornally Arranger, but i use the consolidate to scene, to make clips for the Octatrack, or i do sometimes ahort clips and use logical gates to play them, then record the output, or send clips through sequenced fx racks, which can be easier in session view. Its nice to have, but good to avoid it, so you dont get lost, while creating, at least for me i can make adjustments better in a timeline.
Short loops/clips programmed on hardware, recorded into long takes (30"-2’) on my DAW timeline.
Both. Sketch out in session view, finish in arrangement view
The session/clip view was aimed towards live performance and that’s were it totally shines
I’d love to find, in a hardware (MIDI) device, something that could equal Cubase as it was on the Atari ST. I’ve been playing with clips and loops and running clips in order etc. but after doing that for a long time, I really miss being able to record then lay things out on a proper arrange window. I guess that dusty old computer still has a part to play, if I could just be arsed powering it up…
Arrangement View.
Session view until the main parts of the song are done so I can play with the different scenes and then I copy the parts over to arrangement view.
I also use Maschine nowadays for new ideas and then drag and drop the audio or midi right into Ableton’s session clips.
Very seldomly I record the scenes live into the arrangement but that also can be fun.
I prefer working with linear arrangers. I’ve found when I work in clips I get stuck in a loop mindset. On paper I thought I might prefer that and testing out arrangements, but instead found working in a more linear fashion is better for me. It’s one of the reasons I sold my Push 2, and also why I have certain hardware that actually has a linear arranger (not clips, or a pattern based song mode); the only exception to this being drum machines, where a pattern based song mode works perfectly fine.
The Roland MV series (8000 and 8800) are pretty much what you’re describing. With an external monitor and mouse connected, it’s a lot like Cubase on the Atari ST. Main downsides to them are the (very) slow bootup time, the physical size of the units, and that they’re generally not as fast to use as modern devices, and also don’t have some of the same quality of life features. But otherwise, 15-20 years later, they still hold their own, especially for MIDI sequencing. I think they’re still some of the best devices out there for bread and butter MIDI sequencing, particularly if you want a standalone linear arranger. The second best option for that in my opinion is the Yamaha QY700.
Interesting, the MVs passed me by but will go have a look, thanks. Used to have a VS-880 MTC-synced to Cubase, probably did my best work with that setup. These days I do manual arrangements on the fly from chunks captured in a BlackBox - it’s not terrible but a linear arranger for that would be a dream come true.
One reason I mentioned Cubase specifically was because it has the best piano roll editor I ever used and the IPS and Studio Module were years ahead of their time, never surpassed.