I’m surprised how many people prefer arrangement view, especially as this is the Elektronauts forum, and we’re all used to loops and patterns.
I find session view, with a Push or similar grid controller, to be a fantastic way to play around and get ideas, especially now I have made a simple groovebox-like default template in Live.
Arrangement is where I start creating the song. My day job is as a journalist, and I feel like session view is the notes, and the arrangement is writing the article. You can open out, and see the shape of a song.
The problem is, I often get stuck in the session grid, perhaps because it’s more comfortable. With the new views in Ableton 12, it might be easier to move, while still keeping the mixer on the screen, for example.
I’m going back and forth. Next actions and operators in Bitwig are very powerful and usually I mess with them, “print” the midi data into the arrangement view, consolidate, put that into the clip launcher to play that live, tweak, put next actions and operators and modulations, print, etc…
I always find arrangements ideas in session view that I wouldn’t come up with if I worked only linearly.
For me the best workflow I have found is jamming out patterns or clips live, either into an arranger (Force, Deluge) or as audio, for further editing or refinement if needed.
Cubase on Atari was indeed fantastic, once PCs became the monopoly I lost interest in computers for music, tried a few times with Mac and PC in the years since, but don’t have the patience.
I had a MV8800 for a while, but sadly like most hardware samplers of the time the immensely slow processing was why I never kept it.
Still think there would be a fairly healthy demand for a modern hardware linear multitrack audio recorder with midi sync, multiple recordable tracks at a time, and cut and paste editing. I had hoped the 1010 Bluebox would be this, but it lacks any editing at all.
Many, many years ago I used to record one of my band demos on a Fostex D80 digital recorder.
I remember it sounded really good, had basic editing functions and it was rock solid.
I wouldn’t go back to it (I much prefer Reaper for recording/mixing/mastering duties), but you can find them for really cheap these days.
I use clip view in abbleton, it allow me to capture the audio of my device and see if I could this clip with this other one.
It ease the preparation of the patchwork which will be used in the arranger view.
The arranger is not rigid but it put me out of the vibes of creating the song when I try to match this idea with this other idea.
For me that’s the only thing I really like about abbleton live. This clip view and the ability to write that down the idea in the arranger latter on.
And in the end I use the arranger but I use it only when/IF I feel confortable with all the idea I have in the clip view.
Clip view always. Allows me try out lots of different combinations that would be impractical to do in arrangement view. Also love follow actions on clips, again enables variation of clip combinations. All of this can be easily brought into arrangement view once I have an idea of how the finished structure is shaping up. Using arrangement view for the composition part just leaves me cold
Same here, a linear timeline is so ingrained into music production for me that any of the clip or loop based workflows just don’t make any sense. Why take the time to record something into a clip when one could record the same thing to a track?
At the same time trackers work with my brain just fine.
I start with clips, play and record them into the arrangement. There I‘m touching it up. I like bitwig for that, it allows to see the clips and the arranger at the same time.
My first recording experiences were with four and eight track cassette recorders. When DAWs first came out I was too poor to afford a computer that could handle them. Most of my years in DAWs have been treating them like those old tape machines. I just recently got in to clips and hot damn they’re inspiring! I start in clips and then throw them in to the arrangement. It’s been eye opening to even just be able to swap out drum beats for metal quickly and change the whole tone of the part. I might write a part that in my head will sound good with a driving half time beat, but the ability to just try a blast beat for fun and realize it actually sounds better is an eye opener.
For a long time I wanted a session view in Reason, which was my DAW for quite a few years. When I finally switched to Ableton (enabled in part by Reason becoming usable as a VST), Reason’s arranger was surprisingly the thing I missed the most.
In Live, I tend to follow the workflow of sketching building blocks of a song in session view and then putting them together in the arranger. But while Reason never had a session view, its arranger has a hugely underrated feature called Blocks.
Blocks is basically scenes, but for arrangement: you record a loop into a block’s timeline, then you draw that block into the arranger timeline. This allows you to sequence different backing arrangements in your song that you add new clips or automation on top of, and at any point you can go back and edit a block and it will be instantly reflected in the full arrangement. It’s brilliant! I wish Ableton had something like it.
I find Session View handy on the front end of the process. Generally I’ll start with parts and variations on a theme. I do then build them out in session view so that maybe 80% of the arrangement is done. By the end of the process I will have tried a few combinations of parts. I then record those scenes into Arrangement View.
Personally I find myself using Session view as a vertical Arrangement View, almost like a tracker but for clips. If I want to change an arrangement, it’s quicker to move a few blocks around. I quite like seeing the entire track from top to bottom initially. So rather than playing in the whole thing from 2-3 rows of blocks I usually have 10-15 rows with the basic arrangement already set up, so the recording aspect is just about running those scenes into the arranger.
I also find that when people say they like to distinguish between writing and mixing, Session and Arrangment View helps me do that within one project file.
I might go back to doing it in Arrangement View at some stage. One advantage is that you can get straight into things like editing samples and chopping things up. I tend to leave this and also things like automation until Arrangement View. Again, the advantage with Session View is by nature I tend not to start messing with the detail and the focus is more on which bits go together, what stuff is turned on and what’s turned off.
One day I might go back to the linear approach. But overall I kinda like this set up.
Patterns/clips for ideas and jamming in hardware, linear for making tracks in DAW.
I used to work sort of like this in Reason. First I made basic song idea (drums, bass, arps) in Reason’s pattern sequencers (Redrum & Matrix), arranged patterns in sequencer, added polyphonic elements there, and once I was kind of satisfied with basic arrangement, I transferred everything directly into Reason main linear sequencer (piano roll) and did final touches. Until this day still the most productive workflow I ever had.
That may suit you but I’d prefer a hardware option for laying out my clips. At the moment there are few viable hardware options for that - the Deluge, Akai Force are two that come to mind but I keep hoping others will arise. Nothing against using a DAW, but we’re talking preference here so I’ve given mine.
So would I, but so far only thing that comes close to DAW arranger (that I’m aware of) is the Force and I prefer to use DT and MC-707 for producing. Maybe if Push 3 someday gets similar functionality…