Digitone External Sequencing

Elektron Gear Digitone/Digitone Keys
#1

I have been trying to get some information about the Digitone midi sequencing but there seems to be some conflicting information online about how its working (or just none). I own an octatrack so have some understanding of elektron sequencing and an awareness of the limitations of the octatraks sequencing and would like to know if the digitone fills these gaps.

So 4 midi tracks, 8 note polyphony, got that! I’m curious however about the linearity of the sequencer compared to the octatrack. From what I have seen most people demo the sequencer with inputting static chords on steps, this is cool and all but I would like to be able to have some level of linear playability. I understand the elektron sequences are not linear, and I don’t mind some level of automatic quantisation to steps (I’m not a concert pianist so this would be somewhat beneficial) I would just like to know the possibility of playing more complex passages on a midi keyboard and how that translates to the sequencer (if anyone has / knows of a video that displays this that would be great). I did hear there is a quantised / unquantized setting, how does unquantized work in a step based sequencer? is this done with micro timing?

What I would basically like to be able to do is freely play chords, arpeggios etc with the left hand and lets say a melody on the right hand live and have this somewhat translate to the sequencer without too much weirdness of midi notes cutting out / retriggering on steps they shouldn’t etc.

I also heard that there was some issue with the digitone that when using a midi keyboard into the midi in, and out through the midi out you couldn’t use the midi keyboard to play / audition external synths, you needed to actually record the sequence first or something? Is that really a thing?

Am I barking up the wrong tree with this, should I just bite the bullet and go with a dedicated sequencer like the oxi one or hapax? I would like to keep to the Elektron ecosystem as I have other concerns with the octatrack playing nice with pattern change sync with other sequencers and sending / receiving program messages, that’s a bit off topic but knowing what sequencers play nice with elektron devices could be helpful.

Anyways any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Alex

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#2

The only “thing” is the DN filters out pitchbend and mod wheel data which really sucks. It doesn’t record or pass this crucial expression data.

With your external keyboard set on the same channel as dn’s AUTO channel it’s a breeze to select the source. Just press one of the T buttons to select which track you want to audition or record as long as you set up t5-8 with the midi channel of the external sound source. You can even play combinations of layers at once for insane patches.

Recording unquantitized keystrokes isn’t a problem either. The DN just records the notes on microtiming values. Those can be corrected manual per step afterwards or per track/pattern in the quantitize menu.

The con: if you need to stretch the track sequence you can lower the speed. That decreases the resolution and so the accuracy of recording.
Perhaps someone can fill me in if song mode can be used as pseudo linear recording mode?

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#3

Thanks, that clears up a lot of confusion, was getting some conflicting information online. I think for what I need that should be absolutely fine. I don’t need it to be super accurate linear sequencing so that should work well, seems that the digitone is a more powerful sequencer than I originally thought in this case. I like the Elektron sequencing style so having a decent sequencer and an additional FM synth sounds good to me!

Thanks mate, will probably go ahead and grab myself one.

#4

Huh, that’s pretty bad. Does the Digitone keys still suffer from this? Given that it has its own pitch and mod wheel perhaps they’ve updated this issue?

#5

You do realize patterns are relatively short in terms of “linear” sequencing. Didn’t emphasize that but for recording and playing longer chord progressions the DN sequencer can be a dealbreaker tho. Patterns will loop or have to be chained. Undo is per pattern or you need to chain more unique patterns as a blank song, save it and reload if you need to do a re take if you mess up. That’s do able but not as hands on as daws/workstations with real linear recording. Just wanted to be clear on this.

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#6

Not that i am aware. Made a future firmware request a long time ago but without any luck so far.

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#7

I’m fairly used to the octatrack workflow so as long as its the same but with those added benefits of more linearity and polyphony I think I should be all good, thanks for the heads up tho!
Weird coincidence but I was just looking up sound packs of the digitone to get a feel of what’s possible on it and I came across one of your sample packs, sounds very cool, will pick it up if I purchase the digitone.

Thanks,

Alex

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#8

I find that this is one of the big limitations of the Elektron sequencer - though it may be true of most hardware MIDI sequencers, based on my experience so far.

I don’t know if this is the correct terminology, but think of each step (trig) on the sequencer as being capable of one “note event.”
That may be a single note or a chord (and other parameter changes) but it cannot contain multiple events per step.

So if you’re trying to play a rolled chord with three notes, that would need to hit three steps in the sequencer.
No matter how long the step is (based on tempo and track scale) a single step cannot have different timing for each of the three notes in the chord.
And quantized vs unquantized recording only determines the micro-timing of where that trig is placed on the grid, not the individual notes placed on that step.

Ultimately, it seems like a limitation based on the fact that these steps need to be editable in the sequencer.
Assume for a moment that there was no hardware limitation on track scale/length. If track scale (resolution) could be set to 16x and length to 10,240 notes, you would be able to play in longer sequences and the quantization would probably be unnoticeable.
But how would you edit such a thing? That would be 640 pages of data.

Realistically, I think the only way you could manage something like that without a computer interface would be to only allow recording/overdubbing and not editing; but there is probably a hardware limitation that would prevent something like that being implemented.

.

My understanding was that some hardware has internal sequencers that run at much higher resolutions, but that MIDI itself is capped at 24 PPQN for transmitting note data between devices.

EDIT: but this is higher resolution than the Elektron sequencer’s default 16th note (4 PPQN) resolution (32nd/8 PPQN at double scale) and presumably without the same limitations on sequence length.

Ultimately, I have found it easier to work with audio for recording sequences like that, rather than MIDI. I’ve been using the USB audio out from my Digitone into my iPad running Loopy Pro.

Perhaps a dedicated MIDI sequencer or DAW handles this note data better.
I’m sure that it would for soft synths sequenced internally.

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#9

I see, that’s actually quite interesting. So most hardware sequencers would suffer from this issue? From what I understand the Digitone is the Elektron sequencer mose suited the the kind of thing that I would be looking for, or is there a Elektron sequencer that handles this kind of thing better?

Thanks,

Alex

#10

That’s a shame. Do you happen to know if any of the Elektron midi sequencers allow you to record pitch and mod data for external gear?

#11

I don’t think there’s an Elektron device more suited.
The sequencer is just not designed for that sort of thing.

But as I think about it more, I realize I made a mistake in my conclusion above.
I was too focused on MIDI data and not the sequencer resolution itself.

The Elektron sequencer’s resolution for ‘note data’ is sixteenth notes - or four parts per quarter note (4 PPQN).
If you run it at double scale this is increased to 32nd notes (8 PPQN), but you quickly run out of track length, since you are always limited to 64 steps.

So even if MIDI does limit an external sequencer to 24 PPQN, that should still offer a meaningful increase in resolution (1/96th notes) and presumably you would not have the same 64 step limitation either.

#12

If you haven’t seen before, retro kits rk008 will do linear recording exactly as you play, though maybe not what you want either :joy:

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#13

I think the biggest improvement over octatrack midi in digis is the tails of notes can cross over new notes, but shared trigger notes still all have the same settings. Ultimately you probably want a sequencer that more built for the job but it can be passably sounding like live playing especially if you record on 2 channels in 2 passes which adds in some degree of nuanced trig start times.

#14

Right okay I see what you mean and thank you for the clear explanation, fortunately from what I feel I would be looking for at the moment shorter sequences should be fine, and can create multiple parts if necessary.

The only other query I had about the digitone that I remember reading somewhere was the inability to overdub onto a sequence / pattern while live inputting a midi sequence from an external keyboard (could also possibly be true with the pads on the digitone too) it was suggested this was possibly a bug? is this true / still true?

Thanks again,

Alex

#15

I did look at this actually, it seems like a neat little sequencer, do you own one? If you do i was wondering if you know if it can change patterns in sync with an elektron sequencer using program change? (i beleve elektron sequencers use program changes to sync patterns?)

#16

Yes agreed I find this an issue occasionally on the octatrack so thought maybe the digitone might be a good companion for it, and that’s true I suppose with two channels the limitations are less of a problem.

#17

I don’t - I was using a launchpad pro along with the OT for a good while which was a really good combo actually, since bought a push 3, which is great but absolutely huge

#18

Ye the push is another great option, I imagine it makes hybrid DAW / hardware sequencing really fluid. I will have to look into it a bit more.

#19

i just sequence my Digitone from Deluge/Hapax. Four tracks, four voices, BYU

#20

This is still a bit true: Existing MIDI notes in a pattern will be replaced when you play something different on the same “trig”. When you play something on a blank trig, your notes will be added to the pattern. So you can loop the pattern and add notes with an external to keyboard to the pattern as you wish, as long there is not something else on the specific trig.

And important to know: Each trig consist of 1-8 notes which can be any notes you like but they share all other parameters. This also means velocity, length and many others.