Again, and not to belabor the point, but that’s subjective. And reduces the point a bit, because we’re not just talking about changing one sound at a time (because since we can tweak multiple sounds in a short amount of time, we do!), so this is really about the Kit. Not the single sound or sample.
To me and within my own subjective reality, they’re not on par. Not when it comes to workflow and time spent working to accomplish the same result.
Once the Kit is created, which takes little more time on other Elektrons than on DT , on A4/AK/A4 YES+Kit saves my kit. I do it all the time. Not hard to remember. It takes a fraction of one second to do and I can do it with one hand. No matter what pattern I am in, that shared kit is saved effortlessly.
On the other hand, copying and pasting multiple sounds… but individually, out of one pattern and into multiple other patterns is not something that has been necessary for Kit organization when working with more than a single pattern on a tune. Not with any Elektron before DT. For many Elektron users who depend on Kit organization across multiple patterns, this is a convoluted.
The previous implementation of Kits managed this all in a way that actually simplified it.
So now, the new “simplified” scheme, is only simplified for some, and made convoluted for others.
Because we all have different needs and workflows.
Now, let’s get back to the point of this thread…
The new “simplified” kit structure (1 pattern = 1 kit)
The old “elegant” kit structure (multiple patterns can share a kit).
Surely there is some middle ground to make everyone happy, and being able to paste a copied kit would be a giant step in that direction.
The kit concept just gives more options. You can still have one kit per pattern just like the DT, but you don’t have to. You get to choose whether some of your patterns update their sounds as a group or which ones always are on their own.
It’s really great when you have a progression of several patterns and you want to go bananas tweaking them and maintain continuity while these tweaks may be completely inspired by the moment with no way to plan ahead. The DT can not do this. I perform live improv jamming and without it anytime I come up with something cool in the moment, I’ll lose it on pattern change… For OT it’s parts that serve this function.
Doesn’t mean you can’t make some amazing music the way DT is, but kits are just a nice flexible option to have for most and extremely useful for many…
I don’t know if my question fits in this thread but here goes. i created a new project lets say A loaded up 127 samples in project A then i went to create an project B unload the samples in ram in project B and added different 127 samples to project B but when i switched to project A the samples i used were missing… im doing something wrong here but dont know what…or maybe i didnt save project A proper.
Can you switch between and combine different kits and patterns on the fly? So if Kit A is playing a pattern you can obviously move between patterns within Kit A, but can you also play Kit B with its patterns at the same time - so you can have the combination of patterns from Kit A and patterns from Kit B? If not, then can you seamlessly switch from patterns of Kit A to patterns of Kit B?
I would like to be able to save/load kit’s to/from the +Drive and having a Kit Browser, and a Kit Manager.
This was something I really would have liked on the Analog Rytm and now with the Digitakt it’s perhaps even more useful; Kits/patterns are glued together and the midi tracks contains specific CC settings for external gear. (Reading midi implementation charts isn’t all that fun.)
This doesn’t replace copy/paste kits or other suggestions in this thread.
All it needs it a performance mode or key combination when changing patterns which says “change the patterns only, keep the existing sounds…”
If you wanted to use the reload kit to call up those originally stored with the pattern later that would still work, but during performance you could choose to change to a new pattern complete with all the stored sounds, or just to switch sequencer pattern for notes / trigs.
This wouldn’t just work for performance, it would also speed everything up when initially composing tracks: rather than a “copy kit” command (or perhaps in addition to it) you could select the pattern whose kit you want to copy, hit the “change to pattern X but keep the current kit” button combo to switch to the pattern whose kit you want to update, then save the kit in its new location. Or, as you say, reload the existing kit in the second pattern if you don’t like how the newly-transferred one sounds.
I suspect a system of kit browsing & management is unlikely: part of the plan with Digitakt is clearly to simplify the workflow wherever possible. As someone who’s coming to Elektron gear for the first time, that lack of additional complexity is a big part of its appeal (along with the cost, which may also work against complicating the software too much).
Something which allows me to copy kits with one or two button presses (whether composing or playing live) while still keeping that simplified workflow would be perfect. Really hope Elektron are able to find a way to make this work.
I keep thinking about some way to link patterns so they share a kit - and it would certainly be useful if you want to have a multi-pattern sequence and you wanna tweak sounds across them - but yeah, if you think it through, the most flexible way then would be to store kits outside of patterns and have patterns point to them, aka the usual Elektron kit system.
you could have a parent pattern, where other patterns could point to, to use its kit. Could work, but what happens if you tweak that kit in a child pattern and save it? Does it save the parent pattern’s kit? It’s the same as with the more complex kit system, if you go back to the parent pattern it might not sound how you want it, and there’s no way back. Or, you cannot save the parent pattern’s kit inside a child pattern? So then if you want to save something, you have to find and go back to the parent pattern, and save there…? Or, if you save inside the child pattern, it then makes a copy of the parent pattern’s kit, and saves it with the child pattern? I dunno… can end up being just as messy as the kit system, but worse. It would always put the burden back to the user to remember pattern/kit relations.
Not saying it can’t be done ina good way, but if the main goal is to reduce complexity… there, we have that.
Also, reiterating the obvious… thanks to trig conditions it’s far easier now to make something interesting within a single pattern…
Maybe for long term (ie DT and following on to further boxes) Elektron will see it worth the coding hassle to encorporate having both new/old Kit systems available as a setting in options. Seems the obvious/only real fix for both preferences/types of user. If DT users find DT a gateway in to other Elektron they’ll probably kick up a similar fuss if/when they buy a box that works the other way… Just going to be a vicious circle of complaints unless both options eventually become available in the same OS. Wouldn’t hold my breath tho…