Blokas Midihub

[ecthroi]

@yokermoon

To roughly describe this effect - it creates acceleration and deceleration of notes around the clock or even morphing between time signatures. Feeding it quarter notes (and larger) will ramp, create bursts, or sort of disperse and delay repetitions.

from your description and a brief look at the FlexGroove page, this is asking the MIDIHub to do 4 or 5 things, at least. and i do believe the MIDIHub can do any of them to some degree or another (if i’m understanding correctly, but i’ve never used the FlexGroove). but doing them all together or within the same preset? that may be difficult…

likely relevant pipes on the MIDIHub: Sync Delay, Transform, Random, Limiter…probably others. i imagine a variety of combos of this can achieve most of the effects you’re looking for, but worth noting here that you’ve only got 8 slots for MIDIHub presets available on the device itself, and swapping between them i believe must be done manually if not via the computer Editor (i’m assuming this is the goal, because if you’re going to use a computer then why not just use FlexGroove?). manual preset changes may be awkward/bad in the middle of a song or set or whatever.

[Uija]

The thing is: While Ableton can look in the future and play a note earlier, than it is programmed, anything that is listening to MIDI cannot do so. Don’t know, if FlexGroove is doing this, but you should have that in mind.

[resonotter]

Hi Ross @yokermoon

@yokermoon

To roughly describe this effect - it creates acceleration and deceleration of notes around the clock or even morphing between time signatures. Feeding it quarter notes (and larger) will ramp, create bursts, or sort of disperse and delay repetitions. Maybe could get there via Apreggiator and randomisation of sync delay and tempo divider pipes? I know it’s not all that likely that someone messes with both of these things but thought I’d ask!

This intrigued me so I just had to register & throw in a thought or two.
(Disclaimer, Midihub owner but don’t use Elektrons or Ableton)

Thx for link to FlexGroove; interesting effect!

Interesting to think how you’d do that with Midihub.
The starting point for me is @Uija Jens’ point; Ableton has access to all the note data - Midihub (mostly) responds to notes coming in.
So, to my mind you want a track of notes on a sequencer - where Midihub initially is a Clock controller.
My first line of attack would be:

1. A Clock pipe where the BPM is mapped so it can be varied real-time. This would control the tempo of your sequencer (unless of course it has a mappable tempo control itself). Now it gets a bit more complex(!):
2. Personally, I’d want to do this smoothly so I’d control* the BPM with an LFO set to do a ‘One Shot’ triggered by, say, a separate played note
3. By using Transforms and Rescales, I’d play around with varying the length/depth of the Tempo acceleration based on the note #/ velocity played.

If you’re still interested, I’d recommend sketching out your plan (what sequencers/ controllers you have at hand etc), signing on to the Midihub forum and asking Blokas’ Giedrius who is a real expert.

*this would involve a physical loopback (MIDI DIN out-in/ MIDI USB out-in), but that’s for a separate post!

I might just have to try this myself…

[resonotter]

@yokermoon

wondering if I’d be able to emulate one of my favourite MIDI fx: FlexGroove FlexGroove | Ableton)

I did give this a go, both with a triggered LFO “One-Shot” (this just does a single cycle of the LFO and stops) and with a running LFO.

I made a scruffy little mp3 to show a ‘Saw Up’ running LFO with mapped Rate going into a Rescale with mapped Out Low & Out High. The LFO CC then controls the tempo of a simple Arp on a hardware synth.
Hence the Min and Max BPM and the time to get between them can be varied.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately ) as a new user, I can’t upload attachments! Maybe later*.

If anyone uses FlexGroove and can upload a MIDI file of the output (pref of a simple unswung input pattern), I’d be keen to take a look:
Midihub has got limited standard LFO curves and I suspect one would need to vary the rate with another LFO to get the curves like the almost ‘bouncing ball’ modulation I think I’m hearing in the demos. Seeing the MIDI output would let me work what sort of curves they’re using.

*PS. If anyone’s interested (@yokermoon?), gimme a shout and I’ll post it up on the Midihub forum where I can upload.

[yokermoon]

Love that this concept or device has resonated with you! Getting off the grid, pushing, pulling, acceleration etc is a current favourite in the toolkit and wondered if, even simplified considerably, Midihub could get somewhere approaching.

Thanks for taking the time to delve and test possible routes! I’m not in a position to buy the Midihub at this exact moment to bounce ideas back and forth with you but even getting somewhere in the ballpark would move this to ‘NEED’!

Let me analyse what you’ve laid out and will come back if I can think of any further ideas…sounds like you’re getting towards a fair amount of the basic functionality and that might be enough!

[resonotter]

Sounds like you have Flexgroove. Dunno how it works but I presume one might have before-processing and after-processing sets of MIDI data.
If so (& if you do!), pre & post ‘.mid’ files would be really interesting to me. Please upload!

Re:

@yokermoon

sounds like you’re getting towards a fair amount of the basic functionality

dunno if this is the case, but it’s likely that the little grey box will do stuff that will open horizons even if they’re not the ones originally anticipated…

[yokermoon]

I won’t be at my setup anytime soon but you’re onto something here.
I remember being baffled initially by the device’s functionality and only by following the included ‘lesson’ or manual did I realise that it needed a MIDI clip with notes of at least a quarter-note length to work with (although the output could be way more complex/faster if that makes sense).

Do you have Live and a Max license?

[resonotter]

@yokermoon

Do you have Live and a Max license?

Naah, I only have Live 10 Lite (which I’ve never used & came free with something).
That’s why I want to see what the .mid output is for say a 90bpm straight 1/4-note input. Otherwise I’m left only with the option of analysing the transients in one of the audio files to find out what sort of non-linear timing is going on. Yecch

[yokermoon]

there’s a vast array of presets (and even ‘types’ of tempo modulation) so wouldn’t be a single cut and dry example but what I’ll do (when I get the time) is run the same file through a few presets and there’s a sort of visual/graphic that I can screenshot for each. It goes even further in that there’s essentially a timing tab and a velocity tab, each with distinct modulation patterns (though in trying to simplify the idea to possibly implement via Midihub, it is the timing portion I’m most interested in).

[resonotter]

No worries. This is enough to get me started:

It shows the ‘tempo’ variation based on the first 50 note onsets or so of FlexGroove Demo 4.
It’s enough to show me that a reasonable simulation would be a Sine ‘rise’ to the faster tempos then a variable sine with a shorter tempo range thereafter.
I’ll give that a go when a get a few hours away from my current obsession.
( A while back I devised a phase-modulated LFO with Midihub to create modulations that sounded less repetitious than standard. That would give ‘peaks within peaks’ which could sound interesting)

[BassesAndPads]

Ok all of this is super cool. I am following with interest. My MIDIhub wont be here for a little bit.

[resonotter]

@BassesAndPads

all of this is super cool. I am following with interest

Yeah, I’ve realised that this is going to exercise me; at least until I’ve got a ‘proof of concept’ knocked out!
After posting up that graph (libreOffice chart) it occurred to me that I’m probably looking at something different to what I said at first glance (late at night, GMT).
On 2nd thoughts, this looks more like

1. A tempo ‘Ramp’ up to ‘fast’, then
2. 1-3 beats at a fixed tempo before the tempo jumps to another level
   This 2nd phase now makes me think of using using a Square wave LFO to set the tempo at a rate for a few beats rather ‘continuously’ changing it (as would be unavoidable with Sine Triangle or one of the Saws.)

There’s a few ways of going about this, I think, depending partly how much is going to sequenced and how much ‘played’.
My most recent Midihub projects have been more about facilitating live timbral manipulation rather than rhythmic or scale oriented. SO I think I’ll post up an intro to the Midihub forum to see whether any of the sequencer folk there have already played with this or wanna throw in a thought or two.

PS. For those who might get Midihub or are awaiting arrival, I wouldn’t recommend owt like this as first project! It’s more that Midihub is so neatly built around simple but well thought-out building blocks that it lends itself to those tempting “I wonder how you’d…” kinda rabbit-holes. Be warned!

[andreaslingard]

Does this thing have “note priority”?

[bibenu]

@resonotter

it lends itself to those tempting “I wonder how you’d…” kinda rabbit-holes.

I can’t imagine what you mean … I’ve never done that.

[GurtTractor]

I’m looking for a MIDI interface and this thing intrigues me, I wasn’t looking for anything this fancy but some of the neat processing features this seems to be able to do might make it worthwhile if I can use it to augment the creative process in a meaningful way.

I think I saw someone mention that you could do this but can you tweak internal parameters in the Midihub with a MIDI controller? For example I’m quite interested in the micotuning feature and it would be nice if I could change the scale by turning a knob or pressing buttons on something.

And I’m also wondering if I can effectively give the octatrack velocity sensitivity by mapping and scaling velocity to the amp vol parameter on a track?

[hyperstationjr]

You can add MIDI CC to just about any module parameters, so the device you’re using to adjust those values just needs to be connected to the MidiHub somehow.

You can easily add velocity to something like the Octatrack but to do it with pads, the pads would need to be velocity sensitive. Then you’d use a transformer to transform the Note On Velocity to CC, and route that to the Octatrack. Should be pretty simple. You may also want to either attenuate the velocity, or rescale it so that it works as expected on the Octatrack, since the VOL parameter is bipolar and could get quite loud at full velocity.

The only thing I’d suggest overall is to try and map out how you’d connect your gear, keeping in mind you only have 4 ports in and out. I like the device a lot and still have it, but decided to use something else for regular MIDI I/O because of the number of devices I have just don’t fit on one MidiHub the way I want to use them.

[GurtTractor]

Thanks, that’s really helpful. Yeah I’m not using a lot of devices just now so I should end up with a port or two spare for the inputs/ouputs.

Does sending MIDI data / clock into a DAW via the USB work well? It would be going into a powered hub if that makes a difference.

[wGe23]

@hyperstationjr

don’t fit on one MidiHub

If you’re ever tempted to sell the MIDIHub, please let me know.

I’ve been waiting on one of these to pop up online (used).

[hyperstationjr]

It works well, but my issue was I was swapping around a lot between doing hardware-only stuff, then jumping into a DAW, on top of having multiple main patches and then swapping out and doing other machine-specific stuff, etc etc.

All of this is to say I didn’t keep a single stable setup running, and found it tricky to juggle because it was one more potential point of failure because you still need to have stuff patched (in the Blokas patcher) for it to work.

That’s were I ran into issues and went with a simpler MIDI interface.

I don’t think it works poorly, but what I was doing versus how it worked and how I wanted it to work didn’t always line up.

That said it’s a fantastic device and if you’re interested, it’s definitely worth the price. I also used it through a powered hub with no issues at all on that front.

[GurtTractor]

Interesting. Yeah I’m definitely trying to keep the complexity down with what I’m doing at the moment because I’ve had similar issues with reconfiguring certain routing setups and stuff, but I think as long as I restrict what I want to do to a few basic things it sounds like it should be fairly managable in my case. I’d be using it with a setup dedicated to live music, so once I get it all set up I shouldn’t have to tweak it much.

The ability to utilise velocity/aftertouch for performance on the Octatrack as well as some odd little things like microtuning seems like it would be worth the cost over a basic merger I think.