Analog four mk1 encoders not working properly

Elektron Gear Analog Keys/Four
#1

My A4 has been asleep for some time, now turning the knobs hardly affects the values on the screen.
The knobs are almost not sensitive, the values change in both directions, while I turn to the right for example the value on the screen will not follow my hand gesture.
Basically the knobs don’t work well.
Almost impossible to use without using the function key/push knob and even with function/knob pushing it keep being pretty unusable
I don’t understand how the machine can work so badly technically. Turning a knob and selecting a value is difficult/complicated…

Pretty sad, I do not use it much more because of that.
I hope my DT and DN and MD wont have the same problem.

I have no idea how to obtain day one brand new feeling … It was a long time ago…

Maybe it’s possible by cleaning/oiling the knobs ? I did it several times to take dust of but it didn’t changed nothing…

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#2

Moreover my octatrack mki undergoes relatively the same fate, the knobs are capricious, not very sensitive, I am obliged to press on the knobs but thus it is less precise…

#3

That would totally ruin the encoders potentially by removing the ‘grease’. The DT and DN use a different type but you shouldn’t use any lubricant or cleaner without checking with support first. You should discuss this with them now by detailing what you used and what your best options are

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#4

Thank you.

How would that ruin it? Would the encoders run less smoothly? It seems that they are running but the information is not well transmitted to the machine.
If I take the problem in reverse, adding grease could be a solution to get the machine back to near new condition?

#5

Because there has to be the right amount of a certain ‘lubricant’ within the encoder, it’s important to avoid doing anything which could flush it out, there can be a deterioration over time, with use too - if you search here you may find examples of people ‘servicing’ their encoders back to a better working order, but if doing that was a possibility it may just be simpler to purchase the encoders and swap them out … something for a proficient person to do, not worth the risk if you don’t have that experience

Repairing encoders may be a false economy, it’s possible that a lack of ‘grease’ (and i do NOT mean actual grease, it’s a specific compound that is needed to facilitate the right resistance) could be just one part of the problem, these encoders are not as superior in terms of life expectancy as the ones used on DT DN which are actually called endless potentiometers

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#6

Have you tried controlling it with overbridge, and does it still lag or not? OB could be a useable alternative.

#7

I understand.
The problem is that these encoders became particularly inaccurate and difficult to use long before I cleaned up the dust that had settled on their grease.

If anyone has a reference and or technical advice for me to consider buying the necessary grease and oiling. Because it’s really complicated.

#9

Will overbridge allow me to place p locks?
Otherwise I bought this machine for the machine aspect, so anyway it would be just the time to repair it.

#10

not sure you’ll get any better advice than from asking support - it’s not trivial to ‘regrease’ these - it is discussed amongst those threads i linked, somewhere, but it does involve disassembling the encoder, it’s not a case of dripping it in

the encoders will age in other ways, so it may make sense to get the encoders swapped out, the encoders are maybe 3-5$ a piece - best to take the forum advice at face value and only trust authentic sources - ask support or others who have gone through this process - or look out a local repair technician to de-solder the encoders etc

#11

Here is a simplified diagram showing how optical rotary encoders work, when you get a build up of debris or the incorrect lubricant blocking the holes they will not read correctly, this results in the counting and therefore position being incorrect.

image

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#12

…if u cleaned it already a few times, THAT might be the reason for ur pushencoders, not translating properly anymore…

in fact, the chance that causing this problem is more than highly likely, since pretty much all use of various cleaning liquids and contact sprays lead only to short term solutions on the way to final death of function…

all my mk1 units show no signs of malfunction, even after a decade of daily use…

but as far as i know, only ot’s crossfader is based on optical encoder technique…
all pushencoders rely on oldschool physical contact…

wrong use of several cleaning options tend to harm both anyways…
while the optical ones never need any help from liquids…only little airpressure blasts…rarely.

#13

I just cleaned the dust when I took off the encoders “hats”
Didn’t used any product or especial cleaning product… And I tried to clean them because the encoders were buggy.

Anyway you said mk1 are not optical encoders ?

#14

It looks maybe out of subject ?

#15

AFAIK mk1 use optical rotary encoders that work on that principle, mk2 use endless potentiometers which have resistive tracks inside.

#16

Hmm ok thanks !
I’ve an old store near to my house. They are revox guys !
Really pro, you think they could help me on it ?

#17

Maybe worth asking them, you can buy new encoders and ask them to fit them?

You can get them from ebay and probably from Elektron as well.

More info about the parts here:

#18

Same on mine A4mki. Bought it used on ebay and the encoders work but not the way it should be… Anybody who knows someone here who has good experiences swaping encoders out on Analog four mki?

#19

I’ve had my encoders replaced by the electronics engineer at my work. I have a little soldering skill, but this guy is outrageously good so it felt like it made sense to hand it to him. He had the whole thing done in about 30 minutes. The hardest part was opening the octatrack as the hex bolts were rusted and jammed on mine (second hand purchase). Needed to cut a groove in the hex bolt to get torsion with a flathead screwdriver.

I purchased the new encoders from mouser, they cost about a £2 each. But the delivery was a bit painful.

Screenshot_2022-08-17-11-27-12-162_com.android.chrome
Screenshot_2022-08-17-11-27-12-162_com.android.chrome1080×2340 210 KB

Direct link;
https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Bourns/PEC16-4020F-S0024?qs=7YHpgRs8Dgz3rdOG7W6bxA%3D%3D

Prices have dropped a bit since I ordered!

NOTE: The engineer I gave it to was an expert, he’s able to solder pins thinner than a human hair. He found it easy enough, but he does have a quality soldering iron and does this all day, every day. If you have a cheap iron, or are not skilled with it I would recommend finding a repair shop to do it for you, or send it to Sweden and eat the repair cost.

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#20

Cool, thank you so much man! Ordered a bunch of them and hope elektron will get back soon so i can send it all to them and hope for a repair. Found an oled display too on winstar, hope this will fit and hope elektron will swap them out as well! :crossed_fingers: I think it is worth the costs! My old love A4 :heart_eyes: Thanks again man!

#21

How come you are buying the parts to send to Elektron - they already have the correct parts, surely?
Although OLED would be nice upgrade, afaik they don’t exist in the size/spec needed for the mk1s (the winstar you linked is 128x32, not 122x32) so we’re stuck with lcd screens.

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