Analog 4: a good choice for a drum machine?

Elektron Gear Analog Keys/Four
#1

Hello!

I’m producing more and better as I’m using less the computer. Right now, I’m using the OP-1 a lot, the SP404SX and the MFB-522, just finishing things at Ableton Live. However, although the MFB-522 is nice and I like A LOT to step sequence my drums, I’m not exactly into the 808/909/90’s techno sound of the drum machine.

The OP-1 community also loves the Elektron gears, so I started to read and listen about their drum machines and I became really fascinated by those hardwares :slight_smile: But I’m having some doubts that maybe you folks can help or clarify.

As I’m going to visit London in a couple of weeks (but I live in Brazil) I started searching in stock Elektron hardware that could fit what I’m needing: a powerful step sequencer, a not so obvious variety of drum sounds a possibility of swing.

The step sequencer of the Analog Rytm appears to be really cool, but the drums sounds that I’ve listened didn’t really got me: too “vanilla”, as someone of the forum described. The Machinedrum sound possibilities impressed me, but I’ve read a lot of criticism to the step sequencer (by the way, what’s the problem with the sequencer)?

Indeed, the Analog Four appears to be my best choice: nice sound possibilities and a very modern step sequencer. But I don’t know if I really got it’s possibilites, or if I’m having bigger expectations (and as I’m happy with my synths - OP-1, Dark Energy I, Korg R3 - it’s full synth capabilities aren’t really important to me, although I’m searching for warmer bass sounds, which I don’t know if the A4 can deliver, as I’d read mixed opinions about this aspect of the synth).

Do you think the A4 is a good choice for drum creation and step sequencing? It have a swing/quantize percentage to give more groove to the beats? Can I reverse the sounds with the parameter lock? It’s possible to change the length of each track for polyrythms?

Thanks a lot!

#2

if you’re looking for an “interesting” percussion machine the A4 is great! as drum machine it is weird to program, and you get both sides of the medal there… e.g. you can use the polyphony options & arpeggiators to get instant & unexpected variations in your rhythms which is cool, but programming grooves also requires more thought because you have only 4 tracks/voices. you’ll probably want some FX like compressor behind it for punch…

check out Daren Ager’s drum sound library!

the AR is a much, much better fit for a drum machine though. it’s very tweakable & I wouldn’t dismiss it by the demos…

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#3

I loved my MD, I’m not sure what would be wrong with the sequencer.

I use my A4 for drum sounds now just because I sold my MD. The A4 is a great analog synth (probably my favorite) but it’s not designed for percussion so programming it can be a little more tricky.

If I were buying a dedicated drum machine right now I’d definitely go with the AR. The scenes, chromatic mode, and sample playback really make that a much stronger choice than just an A4.

#4

if funds are not issue go with an AR and analog keys $3500

if funds are limited go with a MDUW mk1 600-700 and used analog 4 1000
1700 all up
also throw in a monomachine mk1 500-600
$2200 maybe

#5

The AR can sound a lot more “out there” than most of the demos you’ve heard; try to get your hands on one so you can explore the sound for yourself.

Another option might be to combine a Nord Drum 2 with an OT.

#6

if you are looking to buy a box as a drum machine the A4 isn’t it.

If it was, then the AR would not have been developed.

#7

If you want more unusual drum sounds I’d go for the MD, considering you’re already well set for synths. You also get 16 tracks for drums, rather than 4 on A4. There’s nothing wrong with the MDs sequencer, I love it. It just has a few less features than the A4; no micro timing, and no individual track lengths. The MD can be used to sequence external MIDI, the A4/AR can not. The A4 can sequence CV. Both can do the swing you want, only the A4/AR can do the polyrhythms (though you can fake this in the MD in various ways).

#8

I agree with most of the above. The A4 is a cool machine, but rather hard work as a drum machine.

The AR is great, with an instantly appealing fat sound and more advanced sequencer features than the MD. Since you can layer every drum part with a sample (and you can do stuff like modulate the sample slot), you can definitely make it as non-vanilla as you like. However, you need to load it up with samples . . .

The MD is a much older machine with a more basic sequencer (but still very useable and solid). It does external MIDI too, which means you could pair it up with something like a Nord Drum 2 and it would still be only the same price as a Rytm, The MD is probably a bit more work than the Rytm to program, but the thing is capable of a huge range of sounds.

I have both the AR and the MD and I’m still in two minds about which I prefer – they each have their strengths. The MD is definitely not out of the running when up against the Rytm.

#9

I can’t speak for the AR as tragically I don’t have one, but I do have an A4. It can be an interesting drum machine, for sure - the ability to plock patches per step works around the four-track limit (in fact, just plocking parameters of a patch can do that) and the various synthesis options offer an enormous palette of sounds. That said, you’ve still got a lot of limitations to deal with (from a drum machine perspective) and nowhere near as many interesting performance options as the AR. If I just wanted drums, I’d take the AR for sure. But the A4 can certainly do percussion as part of its wider capabilities.

Another option is of course the Octatrack, which can be an awesome drum machine with fluid mangling and resampling options, and a wider effects selection. I have a TR-606, and when processed by the OT it explodes with potential - so I expect it’d do the same for your 522 (as well as functioning as a standalone drum machine). Obviously you can use sampled hits, but you can also load in some single-cycle waves and synthesize your own sounds from those.

Again, the AR is almost certainly a better drum machine, but the A4 and OT both do other things very well; there’s an argument and a role for each of them (and the MM and MD). So it comes down to what you want and / or what works best for you - are you likely to embrace the AR’s pads, for example? You have an SP, so would the above-and-beyond sampling power of the OT (or its ability to act as a control hub in a PC-free environment) be something that would interest you? Or, if you’re currently lacking an analogue synth, is the A4 the all-in-one box you need?

I doubt you can go wrong - get any of them and pretty soon you’ll be saving and planning for the next. If I could only have one, it’d be the OT. In fact if I could only have one piece of hardware full stop, there’s a good chance it’d be the OT. In fact if I could only have one possession full stop… well, I expect you get the picture.

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#10

A4 is a good all in one machine, but if youre just looking for drums maybe look elsewhere.

However for getting bass, other synths, drums all from one machine it is unbeatable.

#11

Consider an Octatrack. It won’t give you the analog warmth you’re after, but you’ll be able to step sequence all your existing midi gear, have individual track lengths for polyrythms, and use parameter locks to reverse sounds.

You won’t exactly be creating sounds from scratch , but the Octatrack still gives you tons of options for transforming and editing samples to create completely new sounds. Pitch, rate, start point, retrigs, ADSR envelopes, 3 LFOs per track, 2 effects units per track as well, and there’s still more.

If I were you I would start out with an Octatrack and if you really enjoy the Elektron work flow, get an Analog 4 later on in the future.

#12

Thanks ALL of you for the kindness and great answers, you good folks helped me a lot :slight_smile:

After all your explanations, I think that the Analog 4 is not my ideal first choice and I´m now considering the Analog Rytm or the Octatrack. However, as I live in Brazil and shipping the gear back is not a viable, I need to be precise in my acquisition.

A friend is using the OT and is really impressed by the machine’ s workflow and the possibility of “happy accidents”, something that appears to happen with everyone that uses the Octatrack. I´m really temptated!

@NickD, my workflow right now involves some sampling with the SP404SX, chords, arpeggios, pads and bass with the OP-1/Ableton and drums with the Ableton or the MFB-522. However, my sound is really sample based: the basic structure of the beat is made from what I sample with the SP (my vinyl records or the Youtube). Because of this, although I´m searching primary a drum machine with a powerful step sequencer, the idea of a sampler is really welcome - and as I also DJ, the possibility of connecting the mixer and turntables to the 8T is also very interesting.

Analog Four as a drum synth?
#13

Sounds like you’re a shoe-in for an OT - with the ability to easily parameter lock different samples on the same track, four tracks can be enough for drum machine duties. Then you’ve got four tracks left for longer samples, live processing, master effects etc. etc. Feeding your turntable into the OT will definitely get you amazing results. I have an 404SX and it can still play a role in an OT setup - it has pads, for example, it definitely has some useful FX, and it’s better suited for triggering a variety of samples live, if that’s something you like to do.
With the dual inputs of the OT you could have it as a central hub with the 404 and turntable being fed into it - a very powerful, very flexible setup.

#14

[quote="“NickD”"]

Sounds like you’re a shoe-in for an OT - with the ability to easily parameter lock different samples on the same track, four tracks can be enough for drum machine duties. Then you’ve got four tracks left for longer samples, live processing, master effects etc. etc. Feeding your turntable into the OT will definitely get you amazing results. I have an 404SX and it can still play a role in an OT setup - it has pads, for example, it definitely has some useful FX, and it’s better suited for triggering a variety of samples live, if that’s something you like to do.
With the dual inputs of the OT you could have it as a central hub with the 404 and turntable being fed into it - a very powerful, very flexible setup.[/quote]
It´s really good to know that you´re using the SP404SX with the Octatrack. I like the Roland sampler a lot: very easy and fast do sample, really good effects. Indeed, for my live setting I was planning to use only the SP, with loops cutted for it.

However, with the OT maybe I can get the best of both worlds :slight_smile: You think I can really sample fast from the turntables with the Octatrack?

And talking about the number of tracks dedicated to the drum machine, I think I don´t really need a lot of them: with the MFB-522 I use only two (the linear one and the “fill”; and I don´t program songs, just the two loops). When I use Ableton Live, three or four (with fills, a break and/or a intro).

It´s true that I´m searching not only searching a good step sequencer but also good drum sounds (which the A4 could offer me), but the Octatrack appears to be the best option, considering that I have to choose only one Elektron gear.

Thanks a lot!

#15

Again, check out the ND2 if you’re primarily looking for great drum sounds. :slight_smile:

#16

When I say tracks on the OT, I’m kind of talking about sounds - each of the eight OT tracks is monophonic. So four OT tracks = four drum sounds. But as I say, parameter locking samples gets around this - you can have hats and snares on the same track, for example, and throw in any sound wherever you have a pause in the sound. And of course you can resample and slice really easily.

You can sample ‘live’ from your turntables to the OT - if you’ve got the BPM matched correctly and set up recording trigs, you can sample four bars and the OT can start playing that sample on the next beat, and you could then use the crossfader to mix between the sample and the live deck input, etc. etc. Even if you’re not looking to do live sampling, sample loops can instantly be as perfect as your beatmatching skills, and trimming afterwards is a trivial matter.

So yeah, it’s faster than the SP, but it’s also a different approach. The SP is fun to sample with because you’re chopping with markers and editing with your ears - the results are rough, but they’re also ‘organic’ (or whatever term you prefer). The OT is also fun but it has a more clinical approach - it’s geared towards (but not limited to) sampling and playing back in time to the beat, and it has a precise graphical waveform editor (which beats a lot of PC/DAW sample editors for usability).

If you’re sampling loops rather than single hits, you’ll fall in love with the OT pretty quickly - you can parameter lock the start of a sample very easily, which makes it a breeze to cut from one loop to another on any beat, and you can instantly slice a loop and play the slices live from the step buttons. This is stuff that you just can’t do on the SP, unless you spend a good hour or so copying and trimming and filling up all your sample slots. And you can name samples and file them however you prefer, another big advantage over the SP if you work with a lot of files.

This is moving away from the original question, of course - there are still limitations to the OT as a drum machine, but you might find that sacrificing a few features on the drum front will open up a whole new world of sampling possibilities.

You might also want to look into the Machinedrum UW - sadly I don’t have one (yet), but that can also do live sampling. How it stacks up against the OT in other areas I can’t say, but it would surely tick all your drum machine boxes…

#17

The OT tracks are stereo, indeed all samples are converted to stereo.

Leaving aside the relative merits of various other gear, those that say the A4 can’t be used as a viable drum/perc machine just aren’t trying hard enough. It’s good enough for me to quash my AR lust for now. It’s not the same, but it’s also a better synth than the AR and a no brainier if you have cv gear

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#18

Sorry, yes, monophonic wasn’t the best choice of word in my previous post. Indeed you can use the stereo voices in conjunction with the spatializer effect to jury rig an extra voice - handy for cramped drum tracks, as you can fade hats in over a snare, for example, on a single channel.
But the tracks are all monophonic in terms of playback - one sample at a time - which is an important point for anyone wanting to use the OT for drums. If you’re coming from even a basic drum machine like the SR-16, you’ll be used to double that.
I agree the OT is still great for drums and percussion, though - the tool set more than compensates for the polyphony, and as a result the OT can do things regular drum machine have no concept of. You just have to adapt to the system. And it’s worth remembering that the S950 and SP1200, two of the most revered samplers for drums, also have eight voice limits and far less flexibility…

#19

I shall thank all you good folks from Elektronauts who helped me! :slight_smile: I´ve chosen the Octatrack and I also got an LXR Drum Synth. I think I´ve got two nice gears, which will cover my needs for drums and sequencing.

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