Ableton Live 11

Was just complaining about this last night- the m4l LFO is resource hungry, and for reasons that make sense this morning to me. If you are running ableton at 96k, that m4l device is rendering a sine wave at 96k 24bit… so being at 48k is better there. But I realized there’s that “Max Essentials” pack that has a “MIDI LFO” which is similarly mappable and usable as the other lfo device but since it only needs to render a sine wave of 256 values is more appropriate for controlling a knob. If the outcome is your effect gets zipper sounding you’re stuck with using the other LFO that would be more smooth on a macro that is %100.00

(I think)

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have you tried “reduce latency while monitoring”?

Am i dreaming or the new Follow feature of Ableton is a nice workaround to a dedicated sync box like the ERM multiclock??
Tempo follow does not trigger the sequencer start but who cares if we work with quantized clip launch, or tempo based effects.
Sounds exiting, am I missing something here?

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Reduced latency while monitoring doesn’t solve for the issues I mentioned. It’s best to keep that one off.

As for the follow feature - it could be cool for sure, but im not sure how the grid would adjust to multiple hardware pieces being recorded at once. Also if you do different takes on one drum machine I feel like they would probably be inconsistent.

Interested if someone dives more into this.

Yes. :wink:

Tempo Follow, as I understand, takes an incoming audio signal and adjusts Ableton’s tempo to it. In theory, great for syncing Ableton with a live band/performers.

E-RM Multiclock uses a plugin or single cycle waveform inside Ableton to send an audio signal out from Ableton into the multiclock so it can follow the tempo inside Ableton with “down to the sample” accuracy. And it’s bomber solid FYI :slight_smile:

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yet the generated clock can be a liiiiittle jittery.
I guess in case of a good old four to the floor sequenced kick rooted to it, the follow could remain quite solid

Also wondering if an EQ/Filter could be applied pre-detection so that the BPM detection could be tuned a bit.

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you could do that if your interface has DSP

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Not really. Its not about the drum pattern, but about the jitter that comes from the different machines.

don’t understand what you mean.

in the second part of my post i was refering to the new Ableton follow feature, I thought it could easily sync to a quantized kick (or click) routed to it.

Yeah I understand but its not about the pattern, its about the jitter that the drum machine puts out. The jitter means that the grid changes a little bit every time. So sending it a 4x4 kick and assuming that grid will work for all the other drum parts doesnt really tighten anything up. The erm provides a clock with almost 0 jitter so you can punch in the parts and everything will be tight to a grid that is not influenced by jitter.

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how a modern drum machine sending a quantized click track would be significantly more jittery than your daw sending a click to the multiclock?

image

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If by “sending a click track” from “a modern drum machine” you mean sending one timing event on every down beat into your DAW, then you are suggesting that:

  • You send a kick drum on every downbeat from the audio out of your drum machine into an audio interface
  • The audio interface converts that analog signal to digital information
  • Your DAW receives that digital information
  • Then looks for, likely, a combination of transient and frequency information over the span of a minimum of two (or more) of these detected events to make an averaged estimation of BPM.

And comparing this to:

  • A plug-in or single cycle pulse waveform generated in your DAW at a resolution of no less than 24 PPQN (pulse per quarter note)
  • That gets converted from digital to analog through your audio interface
  • Is received by the Multiclock through an audio jack.
  • And uses no more than two timing events to confirm (not estimate) BPM.

Your modern drum machine’s sampled audio information is subject to a detection, analysis, and averaging method with a timing event 4 times in one bar.

The Multiclock is structured on a sample accurate pulse with an instantaneous leading edge that can be detected many times faster than the breaching of a transient threshold from a complex waveform that your drum machine is producing. And it does all of this no less than 24 times faster than your “1 kick every down beat” method.

Add to this, the Multiclock is configured with time signature so it only needs two timing events to accurately determine BPM. Your method needs two or more (and likely 3 to 4) timing events to make an ongoing estimation of BPM.

The methods/devices serve two different purposes though. Ableton’s Tempo Following is designed to:

  • Take the loose and organic timing of musicians to provide ongoing clocking estimations for Ableton to follow along with externally played instruments.

The E-RM Multiclock is designed to:

  • Respond to a sample accurate timing source produced by a DAW so that external hardware can maintain tight, imperceptibly jitter-free, synchronization to a software environment.

Both have their applications. I would argue that trying to slave your DAWs timing to external hardware using a detection, analysis, and averaging method would be far more unstable than just sending it MIDI clock through USB MIDI. Unless your aim is to keep the timing of your DAW relative to the beat of your drum machine. If your aim is to impose timing structure in a hybrid DAW/hardware environment, I would suggest that there are many better ways of doing it.

Your needs may be different than mine or others though.

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24ppqn is no better than MIDI clock, just for reference…

I have no issues syncing external gear to Ableton via ordinary MIDI clock, honestly. But I don’t use Ableton to produce sound via plugins at all - it’s all hardware. Ableton clocks my RYTM, my RYTM clocks the rest of the studio through an iConnectivity expander, everything stays perfectly in sync. No E-RM gear in sight.

24PPQN is certainly better than the 1PPQN that @Philippe-2000 was proposing using for his method and what I was answering above :slight_smile:

EDIT: And I did state “no less than”. The Multiclock sync source is likely a far higher resolution. 24PPQN is just the the lowest timing I can find in its documentation.

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Ahh…this is super cool.

thanks for your detailed answer!!! :slight_smile:

I think there is nothing stopping us to use a steep click instead of a kick to send sync if that works better!
I get your point that the tempo detection from the follow feature is different from what the multiclock provide. and it was designed to serve a different purpose.
But if we send a rock solid click I don’t see why it would not work, at least be acceptable in some real world situations.

The resolution thing I had not realized, thank you!
having sync happening more slowly due to resolution differences is not a deal breaker for me because I don’t change tempo during sessions a lot but I get your point, this can be a problem

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ah, yeah! went totally over my head there. assumed it was possible but missed you mentioning you were doing that as well. good to know it’s possible to approach it as such, thanks :slight_smile: