A4 & AR Major Sync Problem

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#1

Both the Analog FOUR and the Analog RYTM have a Problem while receiving MIDI clock. Starting a loop from an external origin (DAW or other machine) the BPM jump up to 6 BPM higher. This also has an impact on the Delay FX, which is creating sound artifacts while the BPM jumps. Starting the same loop directly from the machine, this problem does not occur, neither when MIDI is set on Transport (only start an stop).
Hardware problems are unlikely, because two complete different systems of Analog FOUR and Analog RYTM were tested. The exact same problem occurred.

If you want to test your machine:

DAW (Master) to Analog RYTM/FOUR (Slave)

  1. AR MIDI Settings: activate Receive MIDI clock
  2. Choose RS Sound
  3. Set it on the first step of the sequencer
  4. RS settings: Decay 77; Delay FX on maximum
  5. Open the BPM counter and start the loop from the DAW
  • for the first few seconds the BPM will jump higher and the sound will drift. On some sounds the drifting has a stronger effect. High frequencies are more effected (snare, cow bell). If you let the loop run the BPM will jump back to the set tempo and the sound is as set. Start and stop the loop several times. the impact is always a little different. If you start the same loop directly on the Analog RYTM/FOUR, the BPM stays stable, no Sound drifts occur.

-if you want to check your Analog FOUR you can choose POPPEY snare as sound and put it on the first step of the sequencer and run the loop.

If your Analog Four/RYTM has the same Problem, please let me know.

1 Like
#2

Some DAW/MIDI interface combinations are known to have a lot of MIDI clock jitter compared to hardware sequencers. I use th OT as a master and the sync is solid. When recording into the DAW I either sync with midi, or just set the same tempo and line up the recorded audio later.

#3

I own both he MnM and the AR.
I have no issues like you’re describing.

I work in Cubase so I set it to send MIDI clock out to the AR port via its USB and also to the MnM via an out Port on mi iConnect MIDI interface.

Both machines are rock solid…
I even wrote a tempo track with all kinds of tempo changes, ramp ups etc… no problems at all.

The only problem is if I have 3/2 subdivision and my DAW is st to 4/4 but that is not a sync problem…

Sounds like you have something else going on.
Which DAW are you using?
Which MIDI interface are you using?
How is your MIDI routed? Are there some Daisy chaining going on?

Eitan

#4

Absolutely nothing wrong with the A4 or the Rytm when it comes to slaving to midi clock. I have a Sync-Gen II Pro and both machines are crazy tight.

#5

Ableton specificaly has caused me nothing but problems when syncing up midi instruments, including A4.
But any other DAW i’ve tried have synced up the A4 with zero problems.

Also, syncing up the rytm from A4 works perfectly, as well as as any other instruments/sequencers i’ve tried syncing from A4.

Even, the cv trig out of the A4 works great for sync.

Edited for clarity. (i hope)

#6

I’ve got an answer from the Elektron support. They say that this issue is based on the current beta and they are trying to fix it.

@joshEjosh: do you use AR or A4 as slave? cause you only wrote that you’re using OT as master.
@teomi: have you tried to connect the two machines without DAW? In my case, it doesnt matter to which DAW the machine is connected, whenever the Slave receives the MIDI clock via MIDI cable, the problem appears.
@LarsErik: also no Problem without the MIDI sync box?
@doedshammeren: which DOS version you have?

thanks for the help guys!

#7

A4: 1.20D
AR: 1.20

My setup is Reason as master A4 as slave. A4 sends midi out (sync) to AR. AR sends midi thru (sync) to Zaquencer.

This setup works perfectly.

Also when i’m not recording A4 is the master with great sucess.

#8

@doedshammeren: My DOS is AR 1.21 ; A4 1.21rc. Never change a running system i guess…

1 Like
#9

I use Logic 9, and sync the AR with no problems. I have to set Logic to send both Midi Machine control, and clock to the AR. IF you just send MMC and not clock, it of course goes out of sync even if the AR is set to the same tempo. I also make sure in the AR to turn off receiving CC and other stuff that could throw a button push or some other wrench in the system.

#10

@doedshammeren: when you connected the A4 to AR, the BPM didnt jump at all? try this one and let me know pls:
-set analog four as master MIDI clock send activated
-Analog RYTM as Slave with clock receive activated
-choose cow bell Decay 37; Delay FX to maximum
-put the cow bell on the first step on the sequenzer
-put the BPM counter on both displays
-Start the loop from the master machine
Do you have any changes in BPM or sound drifting? Maybe you have to start it several times to understand it. it is at the first seconds of the loop.

#11

I got the impression that we are not talking about the same thing here. pls follow exactly the steps i explained in my post, so we can be sure that were talking about the same issue. Make sure your Delay FX and Decay is set high so the sound drift is more obvious.

#12

@nikhtas

Ok, i did the steps. And i am experiencing 2-3 bpm jump when i trigger the AR.

Not every time. though.

Also it seems to even out after a second.

Hard to tell if it has always been like that or if it has been introdcued with the firmware.

#13

Thanks a lot Dude!
that’s exactly what my machines are doing. Its bloody annoying, isnt it? As well, I’m not sure since when this problem exists, but know I’m sure that all the AR and A4 are compromised. Lets hope that this isn’t a hardware issue and is going to be fixed by Firmware update…
Thanks a lot again, doedshammeren for making the afford to check it. At least we are three persons that know about the problem.

#14

Without the sync box it’s not as tight but I’m using Cubase 8 on Windows with an RME-Audio Fireface UCX so it’s pretty good, but not close to the tightness I get with the Sync-Gen II Pro.
But perhaps you are talking about the overbridge sync thingy? That’s not midi clock, that’s some other magic stuff that Elektron has put into overbridge. I’m guessing that involves plug-in compensation and such. I’m using the regular audio outputs and no overbridge, for me audio streaming isn’t all that interesting so far.

#15

Hi I experienced the same problem. I have the latest OS in my AK, when connected to FL Studio (windows user) using the DAW as clock I see a lot of MIDI jitter making it unusable in that way. However I recently had a Roland TR8 and it was even worse. So I have concluded that it is either the DAW, windows, or some combination, but I do not believe that it is the AK.

#16

@nikhtas: I use Cubase on Windows 7 and have the iConnectMIDI 4+ interface.

I have the latest 1.21 OS on my AR and it’s connected via USB to my computer.

I have the MnM with teh latest OS and it’s connected via MIDI in/out to one of the ports of teh iConnectMIDI interface.

I set both AR and MnM as MIDI slave and set to receive both sync and transport.

I set Cubase to send MIDI clock including song position to both the AR and MnM so there is no serial connection or daisy chain. 2 ports are sending MIDI sync.

Like I said…I have no problems.

I see no reason to connect the AR to the MnM at all since I have the DAW as the master.

#17

Guys,pls!
Don’t come up with any further comments about MIDI Sync boxes or Overbridge issues. I am talking strictly about the A4 or AR as a Slave Maschine via MIDI. No USB. It’s not about comparing different MIDI sync systems, but to see if all the maschines have the same BPM problem and sound drifting.
Did you checked your AR/A4 the way i posted? If not we cant communicate. if you want to participate, pls follow the steps i wrote to doedshammeren.

#18

Here a video example. AR is receiving the MIDI clock. As you can listen and see the sound is drifting and the BPM jumps higher.

#19

Watched your video… Clearly audible in the delay. But do you get the same problem if you keep the sequencer running? Seems like it happens when the transport start message is sent/received.

I don’t trust the BMP-display at all. It jumps around even when the AR and A4 is receiving rock solid midi clock. Got way better in the latest OS versions but still.

If you go deeper into the rabbit hole and start measuring with software/hardware you should be aware that there’s some jitter in the internal timing of the AR and A4 sequencer. It’s really small but once you start to measure samples it will show. (Check the numbers in the litmus test http://www.innerclocksystems.com/new%20ics%20litmus.html)

#20

No, the sound drift is only as long as the BPM jump. I think the sound drifts are the result of the BPM issue. If you let the loop run it stays stable. Im sure there are BPM fluctuations, but not from 3 to 6 BPM!