Sorry for the delayed response (toddler busy these days)
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nice canāt wait I also got a midi fighter twister
Thanks! A mixer was the missing ingredient in my workflow. I was having issues managing volume levels strictly using the internal Blackbox mixer. My headphone mixes did not translate like I thought they would. I think any decent mixer will improve workflow and creativity with the Blackbox. The Dude adds a nice touch to the mixes.
Speaking of workflow, users have asked several great questions that @circuitghost and @papertiger have commented on and offered great insight. Itās cool that everyone has there own way of using the Blackbox to create music. Some musicianās workflows and processes are similar and others are very different. I think several users have commented on how the Blackbox is like a 16 track recorder. Thatās how I am using it now. Lay down some drum loops via clip mode and then record live synth jams onto the various pads as clips that automatically play in sync as you go. I have come to realize that the Blackboxās strength is its simplicity. Less is better.
āItās easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself.ā - Johann Sebastian Bach
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A really transformative (for me) revelation I just had thanks to the tireless efforts of all of you here:
Samples are the āpadsā of sequence mode. This is more or less standard operating procedure for samplers ā assign a sample to a pad, tap the pad to record it into a sequence. So far so good.
But but in the Blackbox, sequences are the āpadsā of song mode. Sequences are arranged in the exact same sort of grid and you tap them to record them into a song. They even look the same if you squint. Iām not sure why this took me so long to get, but this alone has really opened this box up for me.
Thanks for all the help getting here!
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Now youāre cooking, mate. This is where youāll start to find the real magic.
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FWIW: The Loopop video makes that exact same point. (And youāre one step ahead of Ricky Tinez I think)
Another little get together with the Prophet 5 and the Blackbox, and a new guest as well with the Chase Bliss CXM 1978 on the master. All loops, samples and stuff from the Prophet 5, no fx except for the master reverb from the CXM then -
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If the blackbox is meant to operate by streaming samples from the SD card, how come when I remove the card I can still play the samples on the PADS screen?
No idea whatās going on behind the scenes, but it does have 64mb RAM, so I guess itād make sense to dynamically cache smaller samples to reduce the card load - that sounds more sensible for something like a snare rush. Itād be interesting to see what happens if the sample on the card is edited and then replaced, although at the same time please donāt try this.
Drilled two holes, done.
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Making the jump from synthesis to samples - advice needed. Iām considering both model:samples and black box.
It may be a question only I can answer but hoping for some input anyway.
Background - my introduction to sequencing was the model:cycles 6 months ago. Now finding Iām not at all inspired by its range of sounds.
The appeal of model samples:
- a workflow Iām pretty happy with
- relatively low cost, low risk
- I can be pretty sure Iāll use every feature
- knob per function ui
- filter modulation by envelope
The appeal of black box
- smaller, more portable
- allows direct sampling
- polyphonic sequencer
- sequencer thatās much more usable with external synths
- multi samples
Downsides to black box
- more expensive, paying for features I may well not use (e.g slicer, granular)
- not sure how my fat fingers will take to sequencing on that screen
- no filter modulation by envelope (limits single cycle waveform use)
Summing up: Iām thinking the black box might be too much of a leap ?
Anyone here with both who can help me with a comparison? Not really looking for info on technical features (which I can research) more thinking strengths, weaknesses, how does it feel.
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There is a universe of difference between sequencing on the Blackbox and an Elektron device. The latter is far more hands on.
I love my Blackbox, but any detailed editing of sequences on it is a nightmare/pain in the neck. I usually just replay/rerecord a sequence I donāt like as a result (and that is saying a lot as I have always gravitated towards programming sequences, not playing them). Nudging things here and there works fine, but even entering lots of triggers, etc. on the grid is a pain.
I would identify what it is that you want in a sampler before jumping into anything. I dithered over Blackbox and monitored development for over a year or so before getting one.
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Appreciate that, yeah. My bullet points above are not a mere feature comparison, theyāre highlighting the things that I want. So far as sampling goes, they each have features that I want that the other doesnāt have. So far as sequencing goes, the BB is the clear winner on features for me, but as youāve highlighted, itās not just the features, but how it feels in use that I need to consider.
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Makes sense. Also think about what you want to do with your samples. Extensive sound design in the Blackbox requires a lot of resampling, in my experience.
Is there a reason you are not considering the Octatrack?
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Unfiltered response (apologies in advance): too big, too expensive, too complicated
Also (probably, may be wrong) canāt launch sequences independently of each other. Certainly true of M:C, I understand its a feature of Elektron devices in general.
One thing Iām looking for is the ability to keep (for instance) a drum and percussion track running while launching different melodic and/or chord tracks.
If Iām wrong on this feature of Elektrons, please put me straight, but itās what I understand so far.
EDIT: I stand corrected, thank you @Schnork
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Possible if you set tracks to āplays freeā. Tracks can be launched quantized to different values or unquantized.
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What kind of musician are you? Do you play instruments or program them? Or both?
Iām new to BB, but Iād recommend both if you can afford it. The BB is fun with friends.
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Played bass for more years than I want to remember, took an interest in solo composing, which led me to audio looping (which didnāt last long) and then sequencing. So for melodies and bass lines, I often āperformā the sequences (live-record in elektron terms), for drums, percussion a mix of mostly step-sequencing and some live recording.
So the limitations of the black box UI for sequencing might affect me less than others who come from the sequencing side.
ā¦ and, actually, the live audio recording side of the BB is something I might exploit in future, but not really planning on it right now.
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I find my Digitakt is a good drum machine and sequencer of one-shots. Itās fast to program and you can reprogram it on the fly. I think their Model line is similar.
For longer musical passages , the BB is awesome. Given youāre background, I think youād appreciate it. The BB also does drums, but not as creatively as Elektron.
It depends on your priorities.
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What I donāt like on the way plays free is implemented on the Octatrack is, that when you change to another pattern all plays free tracks stop. If āstart silentā is not active and no new trigs are placed on these āformer plays free tracksā, the tails ring out, fx ring out and loops even continue to play. So thatās very useful to have.
If you change to a pattern on which those tracks are not set to plays free, the tracks will play like a ānormalā pattern.
Plays free works great for intros especially, I can bring in different tracks and then change to a ānormalā pattern.
For my workflow - which is building variations mostly with different pattern - Iād prefer if plays free tracks would continue to play even when patterns are changed (if tracks are also set to plays free on those patterns) - so I could move through different patterns and always have my plays free tracks I can start or stop (quantized if needed).
I tried to find a way around that, but ultimately there was no way (at least not for the way I want things to work).
Using loops on audio tracks is one way, using the arp (which has its own mini sequencer), trigged with an inf note on midi tracks is another way, but using the arp in that way has its own restrictions and since I use mostly one shot samples using loops on the audio side is not something Iād want to do.
The blackbox with its 16 pads seems to do what Iām looking for actually. But I have decided to get a Rytm for nowā¦have to make the dark trinity complete. 