Workflow with projects

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#1

First things first. “Parts” have been confusing me but another look over the manual and the best I can make out of them is to basically think of them like how a “kit” works on the Machinedrum. Is this the best way to look at them? I can change a part on a pattern and the only thing that stays the same are the pattern trigs right? Samples, P-locks, scenes etc all change based on what is set in the loaded part?

Now the main thing here is I’m not sure how to organize song ideas. So far I’ve only been working from one project and pretty much just messing around to learn this crazy thing.

Here is what I am trying to do. All of my work I want organized as songs. I don’t care so much about having to stop the sequencer and reload anything as I am working fully OTB and I have no sane way to switch patches on my gear other than manually dialing them all up when needed. Most traditional bands have a brief pause between songs anyway and I’m going for a similar band format, so this is fine during a live performance for me.

Should I do one project per song? This seems like a waste of banks as I do not see myself using more than one bank per song however with the CF card it is not like I’m really wasting any space.

What about one track per bank? This seems like enough patterns and really I should be able to fit two songs in each bank. In this case I can see using one project per album which would give me 8 to 16 songs per album which is fairly standard anyway. Which then leads me to the next problem.

Ok lets say I have 20 songs spanning over two projects and I want to perform 10 of them live. Can I create a new project and then (using a computer to manipulate the CF card) copy the bank files from other projects to this third one to create and organize a live gig where everything is played in order of the banks in the project?

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Confused about Octatrack song/arrangement/project workflow
#2

One song per project. Projects get the default name until they turn magical, then I Save As New.

If I am in a beat battle, every track is live OT because project load time is a non-issue.

If I am performing multiple tracks in a dj set, I bounce all my OT songs to wav files and make a project with all those wavs in one pool. From there it is a simple matter to load up wavs onto OT tracks and go from there. This is actually so straightforward that I don’t even prepare the final project, I just create it live and do the show.

If you think about it, this adds a whole new layer of performance remix and sound shaping opportunity. At the same time this way or working eliminates many of the organizational limitations that some OT users find themselves up against when moving between writing and performance.

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#3

Actually I thought people would try steering me away from this method. Well thinking about it more this method does allow for me to create remixes or live only versions on the remaining banks in the project. Then I have everything still nicely in one project with potential to mix between original and alternate versions live if I felt the need. I think I’m liking this.

So what about copying projects between “sets”? Everything is organized by folders so it should be as simple as dragging and dropping the folders from one set folder to another right? Does the OT use any meta data files to track this stuff or does it just look at the directory structure? I know, I’m being picky but this is really helping me understand how I can structure song ideas around the feature set of this machine.

#4

I’m following this thread with great interest. I’m newish but my mind-set is that a bank is a track and the four parts are variations or A part, B part, verses/chorus, etc. I have heard the occasional click and pop when changing projects. Haven’t dug into it because it’s not going to be how I work, but head’s up.

Also, you mention having to manually switch patches on your other gear. I just implemented the OT’s patch change feature at the end of the MIDI editor panels and am really taken with it. I’m usually so preoccupied at gigs I forget stuff so this is something I can take off the todo list.

Allerian - Would you mind elaborating on your signal path or machine setup when you do DJ sets? Maybe in a new thread if it’s considered a thread-jack. It’s definitely come to my attention that sounds that I thought were complete breathe anew once you get another chance to hack them up.

EDIT - Oh and, there’s a sample consolidate feature I’ve never played with. It might meet your purposes. If you slice or do other file manipulations on the OT, there is a metadata record created with the original sound file. I don’t know if you transfer this pair to a new project if the settings will come along. Seems like they would if you keep the file names the same. Worth testing to find out.

-CCQ

#5

I use only one set. :astonished:

But since I’m here typing, allow me to describe my use of parts. Never really used them at all because I don’t have this experience where you (apparently) find value in changing out samples but the patterns stays the same.

So for me, Parts = 4 restorable backups of my parameter tweaks. I don’t use it to change samples. This makes experimenting very safe and recoverable.

#6

My setup was inspired by Hector: Octatrack only.
You can make an argument that you are this or that kind of performer who has to be doing whatever organic secret tweak with whatever so this can’t work… But my hands are busy working the sound with the OT the entire time and it’s pretty great.
Let’s be honest, unless your audience is a basement full of synth fans, nobody actually cares what you are doing up there. You could just play youtube through the inputs while moving the unassigned fader and knobs around on a dead track while acting like Famous DJ. I kid!

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#7

EDIT - Oh and, there’s a sample consolidate feature I’ve never played with. It might meet your purposes. If you slice or do other file manipulations on the OT, there is a metadata record created with the original sound file. I don’t know if you transfer this pair to a new project if the settings will come along. Seems like they would if you keep the file names the same. Worth testing to find out.

Don’t mean to write all over this whole thread, but here’s a tip.
Try this: Set your OT preferences to save samples in the project. When you consider a project “done”, use the Collect Samples command. If you do these two things, then you can back up projects to a computer and restore them without having to worry about files and folders still existing on the OT. This used to trip me up when I had a smaller CF card and was adding/removing samples.

#8

I use Parts like Kits too, except: there are four per bank, and they are contained by the bank (no sharing). That’s not a bad thing, as you don’t have to worry about messing up parts in another bank.

Slightly off topic:

I just did my first live set with OT, MDUW, and MnM and I used a bank-per-song (or two) setup. The MDUW and MNM wee synced and set up to receive program changes on channel 1. Assembling the patterns on the MD and MnM was straightforward (but tedious), but I ended up not even trying that on the OT. Looks like there’s no equivalent other than copying the bank files into the project and copy-passing patterns and parts into the desired locations. Then loading in the samples… that could get really messy.

Maybe resampling might be the best approach for the OT?

#9

in the early days of my octatrack romance, about 9 months now and gee what a journey it’s been.

actually put the device away for about 3 months. then gradually returned to the hardware sampling universe.

first thing i did was make a backup of the OT’s media card, then wipe it, and install the latest OS. then set the 16/24 quality setting to 24 bit. what a difference. The OT literally shimmers with quality at 24. love that. and wherever possible, i export clips from ableton at 24 bit also.

as regards one song per project … and the potential of wasted banks … well, at least if they are not all used, then that is a good thing as it means the song didn’t run out of space halfway through.

i find song projects in these early days often get cluttered, or stuck in a rut, the reason being: me. i am not fast enough nor deeply experienced enough to know what i want yet. so the experiments abound, they continue, and flourish.

the lesson of Parts is a slow multi stage lesson, and i have found myself only recently being very ‘naturally aware’ of what Part i am on, what other Patterns have used this Part in this particular Bank. Without being distracted by that information. Nor having to think about it deeply very much, because i understand it all now, after being confused by it for months.

One useful skill: Being able to open the Part window, copy the Part, move the selection to a new Part and pasting the previous Part.
the Pattern will automatically start playing whatever is in the default starting slots of a new blank Part and its accompanying Sample Slot selections, and then switch to what the pasted Part’s Sample Slot selections are.

This new Part is then a new blank canvas. There are four of them per Bank, and they are the matrix selection areas of essentially what samples are being played throughout the song. Like, four Multipatches. Each of the four Parts is a Multipatch of 8 Track parameter selections and Sample choice (if appropriate, for a Flex or Static playback machine)…

While at the same time, it is possible to p-lock sample selection on individual Trigs to be other samples than the Part’s selected sample for that Slot.

All this seems to be helpful for sample workflow.

As for recording realtime with the OT, i am not yet experienced with that.

#10

I just looked over the program change part of the manual. A lot of stuff is scattered and leaves a few questions. For one it says you can send program change number 0 through 127. What if you have a synth with more than 128 patches? The Waldrof Pulse 2 comes to mind.

#11

“…What if you have a synth with more than 128 patches?” -

It’s a very old and randomly applied standard so you do the best you can.

Make sure they’re not addressed in banks. A very common scenario is X banks of Y patches. The Sub Phatty for example has 4 and 4 for a total of 16.

Basically, on most of my instruments, I keep the low numbered memory slots available for performance and experiment around in the middle slots. High slots are favorites and go-to’s, more or less.

@Allerian - I meant patches and paths in the OT… I use two statics with matching neighbor tracks and a master track. DJ EQ and Freeze Delay on the master, assorted scene elections for hijinx.

#12

Also, CC 0 is ‘bank select’ according to the MIDI standard. Maybe your synth responds to that.

#13

an interesting thread.

allerian, i’m curious about your process of playing live with completed tracks as opposed to patterns. do you have loopers set up within the different tracks for live-resampling/remixing? or is it more about just letting tracks play out and then cross fading into the next track?

i personally enjoy having access to individual voices within a work. it’s quite fun to play with the structure of tracks, it’s a bit like being a conductor and composer simultaneously. live resampling can also create interesting variations, and tweaking parameters and effects live keeps me engaged and makes me really enjoy performing. i think playing live isn’t so much for the audience, who largely are uninterested in where the music is coming from, but for myself as i find that kind of performance a lot more engaging and enjoyable.

#14

Agreed! I have no interest in using the OT to emulate Ableton Live by being able to trigger scenes of different loop combinations. I like to get right in there and manipulate the structure on the fly and never have it come out exactly the same way twice. It seems like the options for playing like this become a lot less versatile when ripping everything to loops or full lenth tracks. At the same time I battle so much with the OT’s “non” ability to merge banks between projects (without a lot of effort!) Essentially, whether you do one song or two songs per bank, the entire live set has to be premeditated and methodically arranged within a project as you create it which for me feels like a bit more that a creative hinderance. For this reason I have been quite literally rewriting and performing with copy’s of the same project since I got my OT’s!

#15

To elaborate, to start a new project I copy my current project and delete all the banks that I do not want to migrate into my next “set” and proceed to make new songs. Kinda frustrating!

#16

This varies depending on the material. Typically I will run two tracks of one song, so I can effect one heavily. Also, to quote out cleverconqueso since he typed this so clearly - DJ EQ and Freeze Delay on the master, assorted scene selections for hijinx.

#17

Also, CC 0 is ‘bank select’ according to the MIDI standard. Maybe your synth responds to that.[/quote]
Some synths require both the LSB and MSB for bank select, which would mean CC32 and CC0.

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#18

I don’t think I’ll ever have a finalised workflow but in my latest I only use two parts.
Each bank is a song and the first part points to the samples to be used by all the song’s patterns except the last, which uses part 4 and is set up to point to the three track recorders I use for sample capture. Once samples are grabbed and saved them to flex slots, I don’t need to touch the last pattern/part again.
I find this so much easier conceptually than my previous method which was to have 4 songs per bank, one per part. I was always cocking up and overwriting stuff. Next year I may have a better idea. :slight_smile:

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#19

Hey,
I am pretty new with the Octatrack (MKII),
but I was used to perform live with Monomachine and Machinedrums, there I could change easily from song to song but on the here changing of Project create a Pause, how you handle this?

I tried to use only one projects and the part but 4 are way to less for me, and changing and Banks I only destroyed what i did before.

Seems it’s exactly the same problem we have :slight_smile:

And I don’t see any proper solution here, I work with one song per Project for now and use other machines for transitions, so far I didn’t find better.

#20

It’s up to you to find what works best for you but, in case you’re not aware:

  • the Arranger on the OT works the same way as the Song mode on the MD and MM;
  • each Bank of 16 patterns on the OT has 4 Parts available, so you have 16 Banks x 4 Parts available to use in each Project (just like 64 Kits on the MD and MM);
  • each Part on the OT has 16 Scenes with different sample and effects parameters, and you can cross-fade between any two at a time to make variations in the sound;
  • each sequencer step on each track can use any of the 128 samples from the available sample slot list, not just the sample that is stored in the Part.

This means that you can fit a lot of music into one Project, and not have to have a pause for changing Project.

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