Workflow - a flow, that works

The Lounge General Discussion
21

Maybe controversial but I believe that exactly what the elements of your workflow are, does not really matter and they are often what most discussions around workflow are about.

However, what I believe is essential to creating all types of music and art in general is to make the process the point. In other words refine your process. You should have a plan on what, when and how you do what ever you are doing until the process is finished.

When I studied composition it is the one thing I saw again and again in interviews with composers. When there is no plan the music does not get finished or at least not in a satisfactory way. What exactly a plan is though, is highly individual.

The point is to have a clear image of what actions you should do at any time throughout the process. When the process is over the work is finished. The better you are at the process the more satisfying results will come out of it but the end results should really just be treated like a byproduct of the process.

For most people the process will have some variation on the 3 stages Idea - creating - refinement. But this also varies according to personal preferences art form etc.

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22

I’m pretty much the exact opposite lol. If I have an idea in mind that I want to get down quickly I go straight to the DAW - Ableton Move might be the exception to this I guess but it’s pretty closely tied to the DAW and has a similarly short distance between idea and execution.

I prefer hardware when I’m exploring with no particular inspiration or goal in mind, recording/sequencing a bunch of stuff for the fun of it to go back to later and see what’s there. Recording and bouncing as you go, building your own library of presets, samples and loops even when you’re not feeling particularly inspired is a great way to get inspired later.

Although imho “inspiration” is overrated, it’s pretty rare that I’d just have an idea and go from there to a track. More likely I just start doing and the ideas present themselves as I go along. I also keep a scrapbook of things that spark something in me - phrases, images, conversations, random thoughts, voice memos, or humming melodies / capturing field recordings. I don’t necessarily find that these spark track ideas in themselves unless they’re pretty granular - e.g. sample this or whatever - but I do find I start a track and can connect it to something from the scrapbook or some other external idea and from there solidify a direction / meaning / concept that makes it a lot easier to push ahead. It’s a lot more difficult to go from jam to track if you don’t have a clear idea what you’re trying to say with it.

As well as obviously listening to and analysing music I like, reading a lot about the creative process and technical stuff with an emphasis on composition / instruments and especially drumming/rhythm ideas, I try to avoid too much gear focus or yet another YouTube video about sjidechaining or whatever, although that might be because I’ve already done that stuff to death.

So I guess on the one hand I don’t really think the tools are necessarily the main thing, so long as you’re comfortable and fluent enough with whatever it is - hardware/software/plant/mineral - that you can get interesting sounds out of it. But on the other trying out a new or unfamiliar tool, or using a familiar tool in a new way, can often take you in a direction that maybe if you’re being more in control or intentional that you wouldn’t get to.

Another huge thing that I’m working on is getting out of my own way. When you see a lot of prolific musicians and artists, they seem to be able to separate their ego from the idea and treat it as a kinda independent entity rather than “something I came up with” and let the idea be what it wants to be rather than struggling to control it. And alongside that keeping an open mindset and allowing myself to be amazed by what’s coming out of the speakers and just enjoy the idea for a minute rather than treating it as a possession.

So yeah, I’m also probably a bit suspicious of the whole “workflow” thing in general. Usually avoid the term, it feels a lot to me like IT related management consultant speak. I mean, I guess it’s one way to describe putting in place the tools and structures and habits to support creation and trying to build on some part of this every day, but I don’t feel like art is really in the same space exactly.

Edit: lol, that turned into a bit of an essay, but I guess this is a topic that’s pretty close to my heart, around the end of 2023 I hit the point where I looked around and realised that I’ve got more tools than anyone could ever need, so why am I not creating music I’m happy with. Most of last year has been about trying to develop an artistic practice which I think is a subtly different thing to a “workflow”.

One other more practical thing - I find that bouncing an mp3 of whatever I’ve been doing and getting it on my phone so I can listen as I’m going about my day really helps in terms of looking objectively at where I’m at and figuring out what’s good and not so good about it. As well as bouncing out loops and sounds as I go along. Spent years letting ideas get trapped in amber in DAW projects and on hardware without ever letting them get out in the world, even just on my own headphones, because they’re not “finished”.

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23

This is pretty similar to my workflow!

Active listening in different formats/environments is huge for me.

Another thing that has been helpful for me is participating in a community doing battles with deadlines. This forces me to make the most of what little time i have left after the kids go to sleep.

I think a tough part about the music making journey is you start with the spark of experimentation. Then you reach a point after doing it for a while, where you start comparing your works to your contemporaries, and the novelty of doing something new and exciting wears out.

Another thing that has been refreshing for me is stop using the daw for composing. Bare minimum usage involves you recording or slightly mastering. Last 5 years mainly just record completed sketches/jams/complete songs on a sampler/cassette/4 track that is always listening and ready to go.

Working with Elektrons feels like cheat codes sometimes and was amazing for short bursts of time for creativity when my daughter was younger. Connect two or more digis. midi sync. I use one as the main clock source and start jamming and having fun, try to lose myself without any expectations at the end of the sesh I would record my jam if i like it or not. I would use global mutes with minimal patterns, but more tracks that i could use at a time. then use the mutes to make different segments. After i will fill up my tape, sampler pads with all my mini jams (several months later) I would listen to my jams with fresh ears and couldn’t believe some of the stuff i was making, sometimes i couldnt even remember making it. This really helped build momentum and sharpened my sword while being light and fun.

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24

Usually I am playing some clips live or set up scenes manually and create a rough draft.
Most of the automations I am leaving for the arrangement phase, this is because I don’t want to stuck in the session view for a long time

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25

My workflow is weird i guess. But maybe it helps you by sharing it.
I have around 900+ unfinished (maybe some crazy bangers for some people) tracks. Most of them stuck at the 1:30 mark.

Sometimes i revisit them, but they dont inspire me anymore to finish it. So what i do, i start over with a new idea.

My finished tracks are always made in a day. (Few hours time). If in one day i wrap up a song, that means that one is the best and focussed. When i then send it to my friends producers app group, they all love it.

Thing is also, if i forced myself to make a banger, it will never work. But if i have a good day and my mind is rested, most of the time i will just go with the (work)flow. I start tracks always in a different way;
One time first with the chord progressions, other time with the drums, or even vocals, or just hihats on repeat. It just doesnt matter how you get to the destination.

A pro tip though; be carefull with the gear or software you buy. It can also demotivate you making music. Make sure you buy something that is fun for “you!”. Either soft or hardware.

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26

GOLD!!!

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Yes. This (+comparing them against each other) is one of my biggest weaknesses. I’ve 6 (six!) DAWs, ffs. And 300+ plugins.

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Nothing like that. I don’t have the problem with understanding arrangement or structure. I’m 48, I’ve been around & listening - deeply! - to music most of my life, I started making music in early 90s.

My main problem - I think - is that I set myself too high of a standard, scrap 95% of the stuff I make before it goes anywhere and those that remain, I improve and “perfect” until I can’t listen to it anymore and then I fear to elaborate on the idea further because the next element doesn’t match the bar I’ve already set
 It’s a crazy, vicious cycle. That’s why I’m looking for workflow ideas that might help me. Yours isn’t it, although I appreciate you giving it. It’s nothing personal.

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29

There’s nothing wrong with gear being the whole thing for you if that’s what works.

Just wondering, do you have collaborators or anyone to play your stuff to? I know I personally can tend to get tunnel vision a bit, jamming with other people and/or letting go enough to let people hear your stuff can be really liberating. Even little things like Jamuary or beat battles or discords can be good for just putting something out there in a fairly low-stakes environment where everyone is in pretty much the same boat.

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30

Changes but sometimes its

Get an idea, spark of inspiration or need to make a track for something

Start playing around with Ableton and bits of hardware

Record some loops

Sample some stuff

Start trying them all together

Get something that eventually works and build upon it

Add more sounds and create some melodies and harmonies

Keep building

Delete stuff (varies in amount)

Record more parts

Put it into a rough timeline in Ableton

Edit again

Work on mixing and adding fx

Tighten up structure and add transitions

Bounce down a first draft

Listen on as many things as possible

Go back again and make some more mixing choices

Export and listen to until it annoys me then leave it a week and come back with fresh ears

Hope it’s not shite

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31

Happy struggling, then, Artur

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32

Replace “workflow” for “Funflow” in your mind without overthinking.

image

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33

It can be really dependent on genre. A techno track approach is way different than a singer/songwriter thing but for me it comes down to deciding what CREATING is for you.

If I write something with a melody and lyrics I make myself mostly finish it at a piano before I put my producer hat on. I might structurally change something when I move to the DAW or put a 2/4 bar in to get a bit of surprise but it is all done in service of the melody.

Electronic stuff (well non-vocal stuff in general) makes it harder to separate those approaches as pushing the timing back of a snare drum can massively impact the groove. This makes it harder to tell what is work and what is play.

Ask yourself what the fun stuff is. Lean into that and don’t shift to finishing (whatever that looks like based on your style) until you are happy with the fun bits. Then walk away for a bit before you put on your “work/finishing” hat. Consider that part of it how you are going to show some people HOW MUCH FUN YOU HAD MAKING IT!!

It is all about perspective
but yeah
publishing is the better idea. To paraphrase Jack from Patreon
 “There is no final score in making art.”

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34

No, other than some FB groups where I’m a member. And my YT channel. I don’t really seek external validation much. It’s just a hobby for which I’ve less & less time (48 old, demanding non-music job, wife + 3 kids).

I’m “terrified” of things like Jamuary or remix contests :wink: :smiley:

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35

Best way to deal with this, just release absolutely everything you make for a set period of time, no matter how shit it is. No amount of gear or workflow changes are going to fix what your brain is doing.

You could do it under a different pseudonym if you’re worried about harming your rep.

Then you’ll see how little it matters whether or not you think your tracks are any good. I hate a decent amount of the music I put out, but it’s amazing the stuff people actually put their hands in their pockets and pay for.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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36

File -> Export

It sounds silly but its crazy how much you can stay in an editing workflow without actually pressing bounce.

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37

To paraphrase this, try to finish everything you start, expĂ©riment with the full process of doing it untill the song is done, even if you don’t personally like the song that much, or the way it turned out. I have been surprised with a few so called bsides, that people actually enjoyed more than my personal favorites.
Also there’s something enjoyable when something is done. finishing a bit of music feels fine. It’s not on your mental charge anymore, and then you can move on without any guilt.

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38

I struggled with the same problem and still do sometimes. What helped me was just creating sounds and have fun with it instead of trying to finish a song. Not thinking about genres and only playing around. It wasn’t satisfying right away but after a while i rediscovered the joy in making music again.

It wasn’t all bad before but as you said i was sometimes caught in structures and rules of how to achieve specific goals. Like finishing a cleanly produced techno track or composing a full song.

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39

This book explains the process pretty well.

And if you need more of a motivational resource, you can read or listen to this book:

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40

One thing I’ve read repeatedly (and who am I to argue) is to just make sure you finish something. And then you might indeed think that it’s crap, but the next one you finish will be a little better, because you’ll have learned something from that last one. And then you can move on. Being stuck in half-finished limbo is a killer for any creativity or art form.

The same applies with writing - I’ve studied screenwriting and film/TV production, and all the writing tutors (many of whom were successful writers in the industry) said you just have to keep writing, and the more you write the better you’ll get. Stories need an ending. Films need an ending. Poems need an ending. Tracks need an ending!

I know it’s boring and bland advice, but it crops up time and time again for a reason.

Just to be clear - this is as much advice for myself as it is for @antic604 or anyone else. I need to finish some stuff so I can learn how to finish some stuff and move on!

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