I think distinguishing between modern percussive and melodic synths is not entirely useful as the boundaries between the two have effectively disappeared.
If this is accepted then the discussion is perhaps more broadly about general synth preferences.
it might be helpful to think about what it means to pair a given instrument with another. a classical composer for instance might decide the horn line she was considering doesnāt get the job done tonally, and strike it out in favor of an oboe answering the violin at that particular moment.
considering electronic instruments, and electronic rhythm instruments in particular, you still have a lot of variation in sound among them. plenty of overlap in some cases, plenty of thump across the board from any of a dozen choices ā¦ but which offers the possibility of adding the right amount of ramp as well as a bit of dirt to the kick, while simultaneously offering a hihat that has that certain metallic ring?
to complicate matters, the question might have more than one right answer depending on the context. paired with one synth or playing one style, it might sit fine. with or in another, the oboe might work better than the horn.
and it might not be obvious until she has tried both. in a finished piece of music, if the choices work, the fact that other alternatives may have been explored and rejected may not be the first thing that springs to mind, and shouldnāt be ā¦ the audience should be charmed by the composerās success and the apparently effortless inevitability of the completed piece.
i suppose what iām struggling to express here is the idea that achieving instrumental harmony requires a number of factors to be balanced effectively, and the end result may give scant evidence, if any, of the effort and choices that led to it. leaving aside all the factors that get users emotional and partisan about their pet drum machines, the issues of available sound generation method and hardware features alone could make for a lot of discussion over what rhythm device youād want ā in a particular context.
pairing sounds is awesome and an infinite journey.
but i also have a question ā¦ if we forget about the psychology of brand model and dollars, and just think about rhythm ā¦
then ā¦
well, i would propose the next step would be to ask:
What is Rhythm?
Rhythmic excellence is the opposite of European mimicry of house, techno, and hip hop.
Or written as an s.a.t. Type question :
Europeans are to house as pat Boone is to little Richard
@dubathonic great analogy, expressed well and that certainly helps me understand the obsessive debates
@previewlounge I see that too and again helps answer the original question
@dionysus Interesting and probably a separate thread - I wouldnāt necessarily agree though - for example, in the history of electronica, Kraftwerk were celebrated for their particularly European approach to rhythm and an inspiration for many non European artists who are all on record in various interviews using phrases like āmachine soulā etc etc
Or we could ask A Guy Called Gerald and Richie Hawtin for some European rhythm tips maybe?
if you are prepared psychologically to accept that :
andā¦
thenā¦
then you really shouldnāt have any problem simply accepting that some other musical instrument (say drum machines) have the same spread of differences and hence preferencesā¦and that also some people care about this more than others 
The difference are vast between drum machines
Analogue vs digital vs sampled
Swing settings
Play ability
Xox vs live record.
Quantise settings
Amount of sounds available
Quality of DA converters
Ease of use
The list goes on. Some people like the punchy warmth of an analogue kick from a TR 808 and others like the digital crunch of SP 1200. There is no right or wrong answer to this discussion. Must producers donāt even use drum machines nowadays everything is done on computers.
i wasnāt being serious,
i always wonder how a not so intimidating guy like Dick H. didnt get killed in that 3rd world that is Detroit, or at leas didnāt come out of i all stuck with nickname like āwhite dick beat masterā
i always went to school where i was the vast minority, a white minority,it wasnt friendly at times,
@mystic38 I appreciate the analogy of course with why people might choose one guitar over an other etc. but in fact Iām not prepared to accept passionate put-downs of any kind of drum machine without understanding what people are looking for in the āsoundā - that was the focus here, and Iāve got some good answers where people dug into some specifics that I was either missing or didnāt perhaps care about so much - itās been educational.
Just the sound, not the features - and trying to stay focused on the sound of the drums in a production context regardless of feature set of this or that machine.
Except in the most general sense (analogy), comparison with synths sounds preferences is just too broad here - dedicated drum machines tend to have a very focused sound whereas most synths can at least attempt to emulate percussion instruments for better or worse. I might buy a synth that is the only machine Iāll ever need for a full production, but Iām unlikely to buy a drum machine that can also create pads, leads and minor 7th string sounds (although of course, enter the Tempset or the RY30), and a drum machine that can do this takes us back into the realm of features.
Kick-snare-hats - simple - why choose one machine over another, regardless of other tricks available.
So no, I donāt want to broaden the discussion to comparisons with why people make instrument purchases in general - just drums, and just the sound of the drums - boom-chick-boom-chicka-boom-boom.
sound n workflow,
i like the way the vermona sounds a ton,
there is a huge different in sound,
the md and octatrack, i would make my drum patterns in first, at times i wouldnāt feel it,
i would change it out to midi and control the vermona, most times i liked the results,
but now i have , a step up in some ways, down in one type drum for sure
Iād say sound and workflow - all of which is personal preference at the end of the day. I am quite happy with using a Monomachine and my A4 + machine for drums.
However I rely on my Integra-7 a lot for 707/606/505/808/909 kits and Supernatural (Acoustic Kits) + Maschine for more clicks and cuts based percussive workouts.
That said I would still like to get my hands on a Kawai XD5 again at some stage but it aint what you use, itās the way that you use it.
The RY30 was always a favourite of mine back in the day also.
For sounds of drum machines, youāll have to just play a few different machines and figure out what you like. In my tinkering, what Iāve discovered is certain machines sound good with little tweaking, but when compared to a deeper machine, they lack the same amount of definition one can achieve. Thereās also the issue of how drum machines sound on different systems. My old DR550 sounding the same everwhere I played it. I love my MDUW, but I think sometimes the sounds donāt translate well on different systems. I auditioned various sound modules to be sequenced with the MDUW, only to return them and stick with the machinedrums internal sounds. The machinedrum can be a thin sounding, temperamental nasty bitchā¦ but for my nasty ass $HITTY ghetto techno music, it seems to workout well.
Soā¦ it would help to ask yourself what kind of music you want to make and what gear you already have. If you have an adequate sequencer, than you will only need a drum sound expander module. If you make techno/house the XR20 is a surprisingly awesome sounding machine for the price, and can be had pretty cheap. If you want to kraft your own sounds, than youāll need something a little deeper like the MDUW, Tempest or RYTM.
If you want your bread & butter sounds, with very little interest in tweaking, the TR8 is a great sounding machine
Samplers are also awesome drum machines, but personally I hate searching for samples to loadā¦ so I just stick with synthesis mainlyā¦ but if your not against using samples, the MPC does have a nice character to the soundā¦ as used ESX may not be a bad choice either.
Anywayā¦ sound is a personal taste thing.
While contemplating drum machines recently, I was thinking about the complex burst of joy that is the TR-808 cymbal. Itās just one voice out of many but described beautifully here:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Jul02/articles/synthsecrets0702.asp
Dedicated drum machines with dedicated drum circuitry are a special thing and Iām glad theyāre popular all over againā¦
the idea of a sound sounding being a mini burst of joy truly is a fabulous image, cheers Smokyfrog,
i would say that Rhythm is the patterned interruption of silence, actually that is what i heard someone say a couple of years ago.
a transgender programmer party girl recently told me that rhythm is only good and effective if it moves the kidneys with each kick drum.
another person, a keyboardist, she cannot bear rhythmic audio loops if they sound boxy or too busy; overly notey for her is not rhythm.
okay here goes my very own definition of what rhythm is: a communication, a massage, and an interruption of eternal silence.
Thanks for all the creative and intelligent contributions guys - sure beats debating Volca versus Rytm eh?
Anyone feel free to start a flame war on Phat v Thin, Analog v Digital or Marilyn v Sylvester at this point, before this thread gets too āseriousā
Boom-chick-fsst
perhaps too many questions is a questionable thing, but anyway i have another oneā¦
what is Phat?
what brings the Phatness?
what is enjoyable about Phat?
and also:
what is thin, how is thin enjoyable, where does it stand in the scheme of things?
Boards of Canada have some delightfully thin aspects of their percussion parts, in placesā¦
Tycho is someone who i like the music of, and his rhythm tracks are often ā¦ back in the mixā¦ using thinness to allow for space in the audio spectrum for his minimalist melody grooves.
sounds like in the drum machine world, it is easy for you to get inspired. donāt question that, just make music and keep going.
youāre not missing out on it, until YOU believe you are missing out on it.
itās all mental and psychological.
for meā¦
if i donāt smile when i sit down w/ a machineā¦ i wonāt get a lot out of it.
i need something at the outset that inspires & draws me in. seriously.
if you donāt hear it, donāt go looking to get pickier than you already are. thats why less music is made less and making music is talked about more.
donāt try to become a snob. go with your tastebuds.
(how many ways can i say the same thing?)
My only problem with this thread is you have ask to separate out all the human elements of the choices, but it is people making the choices not an oscilloscope.
Out side of the previously said analog vs digital vs sample, but within each of the three domains it is bomb cost which makes the difference. Labor changes the price, minus a few greatsā¦
every one of the drum machines you mentioned is a machine someone could make great music with. It is not the tools, it is the humans.
@danlukas right on broheim - smiling is important and I suppose thatās where we start getting a little subjective because different things make people smile for different reasons etc but thatās ok and I agree wholeheartedly that the machine has to bring some fun to the game
@dimi3 your right of course but this isnāt ārealā - just an attempt to try and remove some of the passion/opinion that clings to brands and try and get to some kind of lowest common denominator (kick-snare-hats if you like). In the end game, folks will always choose a machine based on all sorts of uniquely human factors but at the same time we continually hear pseudo scientific references/justifications as to why something is a ābetterā choice for drums.
So you right, itās not an oscilloscope making the decision, but I am hoping that on this forum I can get some insight (and I have already, thanks guys) into what people are listening for in a drum machine regardless of features/extras/brand loyalty/cost etc.
I have faith that some (hopefully most ) people here are making decisions with their ears and Iām interested in how those decisions are made.
Edit: in fact I could probably rename this thread to something like āWhat are the basic sonic elements you are listening for in a new drum machine?ā
But thatās only half the question really, as Iām also partly trying to understand why people ācareā so much about this, and Iāve gotten answers to that too, so happy dayze